adhesive for ballasting

I keep reading that you mustn't use PVA for ballasting because it sets rock
hard and transmits noise. We're supposed to use "artists' matte medium" or
"acrylic matte medium". For example Iain Rice on page 147 of the January
Model Railroader, or Wolf Kirchmeir in a posting here on 7 August 2002.
However I have asked for these in two ironmonger's shops and two artists'
suppliers and been met with blank stares. One of the latter sold me "Marvin
Medium" by Berol but it looks like PVA to me. Does anybody know a brand name
for this matte medium stuff, whatever it might be? Incidentally Carr's
Soldering Handbook suggests using Copydex, but presumably this is not
water-soluble and might make the track difficult to
clean for re-use on the next layout?
Reply to
Ed Callaghan
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"Ed Callaghan" wrote
That's true, but is noise such an issue?
John.
Reply to
John Turner
Copydex is wonderful stuff, its used for fixing carpets and is a kind of rubber glue, it is excellent where the surfaces need a little bit of give, or are very absorbant.
-- estarriol
Reply to
The shuffling Shambling Zombiefied corpse of estarriol
Windsor and Newton call (or called) it Nacryl. It's a thickening medium for building up impasto effects. The matting is consequential. It's slightly less brittle than PVA but I can't imagine you would have much luck removing it at a later date. Copydex market their own remover, but lighter fuel (and, I suspect, diesel fuel) would work.
Ken.
Reply to
Ken Parkes
=> For example Iain Rice on page 147 of the January =>Model Railroader, or Wolf Kirchmeir in a posting here on 7 August 2002. =>However I have asked for these in two ironmonger's shops and two artists' =>suppliers and been met with blank stares.
Acrylic matte medium is the stuff used to extend acrylic paint. (Its main effect is to make the paint more translucent, and to thin it without changing it into a wash - for that you use distilled water.) You should find it at any artists' supplies store, though it may be called different things. It also comes in gloss. You could also use clear acrylic varnish - just thin it with distilled water. Some people just use acrylic paint of a suitable colour. Thinned, it will dry transparent, more or less. I've used acrylic medium and PVA glues, with acceptable success. In any case, some painting with acrylic washes to represent the effects of dripping oil, brake dust, sand, etc is necessary if you want truly realistsic track. I've done that, too, on a short section of track on a long-gone layout. Lots of work, but may be worth your while for foreground track - it's your decision.
NB that the major issue with ballast glue, regardless of type, is penetration without making scuzzy little balls of glue covered in ballast. Some people have recommended misting with isoprpyl (rubbing) alcohol first, others say to use a water with a drop or two of dish detergent in it, then dribble on the glue. Haven't tried that - I put a drop of detergent in the thinned glue. Worked OK. Some PVA craft glues stay flexible, and are OK to use; other PVA glues dry hard. Read the label.
However, I recommend that you experiment, and do a few trial sections to find out what works for you.
Wolf Kirchmeir ................................. If you didn't want to go to Chicago, why did you get on this train? (Garrison Keillor)
Reply to
Wolf Kirchmeir
Soldering Handbook suggests using Copydex, but presumably this is not<
Copydex or similar types of adhesive would be better than PVA and you can also obtain it in larger quantities via carpet-supply stores.
Colin.
Reply to
Colin Meredith
Part of the problem is the ballast - Plain PVA with grinite chippings (well stone anyway, very heavy) sounds like a tumble dryer full of spanners, same glue with Chinchilla sand from the pet shop was much quieter - Both on a wood-felt base laid onto plywood. If I can work out how to (easily) paint the stuff I'm taking a serious look at Felichman ready ballasted - More expensive it might be and the rail is 'too deep' (at least in N) but it works well and the side-attached motor can be unclipped and re-inserted upside down so it will fit into a shallow hole beside the point, simplifying electroical operation no end.
Some in the group are using the japanese ready ballasted track, any comments there?
Reply to
Mike
I bought Liquitex Matte Medium from an artists' supplier in Canada; it's made in France and should be available in the UK. I haven't actually tried it for ballast yet. Copydex is probably cheaper.
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Reply to
MartinS
Hi all,
I also went looking for Matte Medium when tracklaying but my local art emporium wanted what I considered to be an almost extortionate sum for it. In the end I used PVA and chinchilla sand. I've considered Copydex, years ago it came with a useful instruction book but the new bottles don't have this. I've tried the manufacturers website but found nothing. Does anyone have any information on thinning it so that it flows a little more than standard?
Tony Comber
Reply to
TonyComber
I'm using Kato Unitrak which has the same 'too deep' profile of the Fleischman track. I like the stuff, it's very convienient and the point motors are hidden under the ballast. I find that once I've painted the rails a rusty colour and given the ballast a thin wash of 'dirty' acryilics it looks okay. The points are expensive though and laying a fan of sidings can cost an entire wage packet. (well, one of my wage packets anyway) One advantage is that there are something like 10 radi of curves in the range and this allowed me to have easements on my curves and therefore a much more realistic appearance.
As to using PVA for ballasting, well I've used the stuff since I was a nipper and never found it to cause any problems. I've found that most noise is caused by using a table top type baseboard so once I got used to using open frame style tops most noise issues went away.
My local Do It All has tins of the matte medium type stuff in the specialist paint effects section. It's used for thinning acyrilc paint.
Pete
Reply to
mutley
I should have added that I'm using mostly Kato stock on this track. There are issues regarding the No 4 point in particular which can cause problematic running with non-kato models. Nothing that can't be fixed with a bit of filing here and there, but the the track is certainly not quite the wonderkid the likes of MG Sharp (and others) would have us believe it is. Some of my Tomix models struggled to stay on the rails until I had modified it.
Pete
Reply to
mutley
I've considered Copydex, years ago it came with a useful instruction book but the new bottles don't have this. I've tried the manufacturers website but found nothing.
Reply to
Colin Meredith
I'm still a convert to PVA glue and granulated cork ballast. There's no apparent increased noise and you can lift track and pointwork for re-use if you soak the track well beforehand and leave it for a few hours. My recipe is a 50-50 mix of PVA + water + a tin of Artists powder colour (Burnt Sienna) + a few drops of detergent. If you get the mix right, it 'creeps' up to sleeper level to give a prototype look. Any surplus can be brushed off for re-use, or if particularly stubborn, rubbed off with a blunt screwdriver. Hope this helps.
Sun, 4 Apr 2004 14:01:12 +0100, "The shuffl
Reply to
GLANVILLE CARLETON
I might be going mad here but I thought Copydex was PVA glue?
Reply to
P Morgan
In message , mutley writes
Must be a bit difficult curving the flexible track, though!
Reply to
John Sullivan
I seem to remember thinning it with meths
Reply to
Mike
PVA is an acrylic, Copydex is a latex based glue, you can get flexible PVA (sold as book binding glue) but you may need to contact the makers to get some. Copydex can (IIRC) be diluted with meths, seem to remember that was what I used when I tried Peco foam underlay some years ago, lovely quiet running.
Reply to
Mike
I seem to remember Copydex is very smelly... Doesn't it have ammonia or something???
Adrian
Reply to
Adrian
In message , Adrian writes
Copydex has virtually no smell (well not to me anyway:-)) and is best diluted 1:10 with Halfords Screenwash then let capillary action do its thing.
Reply to
John A Calder

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