Blue and White livery question...

I've just obtained a book by John Boynton about the stretch of railway between Coventry and Birmingham. There is a colour plate from 1968 in which the white
part of the livery on the Mk1 buffet and baggage coaches is significantly brighter than on the Mk2 coaches. Prior to this photo being taken it was common for the Mk1 baggage vans and buffet cars to be left in their original maroon livery in a rake of otherwise blue and white Mk2.s Were they painted slighted different shades of white from the outset or this a case of the white paint on the Mk1's being freshly applied over the previous maroon whereas it has faded to grey with age on the Mk2's? The blue is the same shade on both types of coach.
(kim)
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between
white
common
maroon
slighted
paint on

faded
Mk1 were re-painted as and when they required when being overhauled (or after being vandalised), Remember that in '68 Mk1's were still front line coaching stock.
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The livery was - if I remember correctly - blue and a very pale grey. During the painting process masking between these two colours was achieved by using a white adhesive tape - as this actually "set off" the blue and pale grey quite nicely it was decided to retain the (pure) white separation strip. Hope this helps, David Costigan

between
white
common
maroon
slighted
paint on

faded
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David Costigan wrote:-

On the particular photograph in question the Mk1's are pure white and blue while the Mk2's are pale grey (and blue). The picture was taken on a very sunny day and possibly overexposed. That is why I need to know if the shades were different when first applied or are simply the result of ageing.
(kim)
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Mk1's are pure white and blue while the Mk2's are pale grey (and blue). The picture was taken on a very sunny day and possibly overexposed. That is why I need to know if the shades were different when first applied or are simply the result of ageing.
Mr P, as far as I know from rubbing the blue and grey down on the Mk 1s (before turning back to maroon) they were blue and grey, with a about a 15mm white edge between the two. I have never (But not say it has never occurred) seen a blue and white livery coach, unless someone ran out of paint on a Friday afternoon?
Andy
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<pedant> Actually, there was BR Mk I based rollingstock painted in blue and white. Some examples can be found by viewing:
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/53amodels/picture/101dmu-YK-080677.jpg
or
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/53amodels/picture/Refurbdmu-YK-250577.jpg
Quite an attractive livery too. However, probably not what the other person was after. </pedant>
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Actually the vehicles in both photos at the above URLs are clearly identified on the caption as class 101 DMUs which have been refurbished. These units were a proprietary design by Metropolitan-Cammell and, while originally built during the same time period, starting in the 1950s, as Mk 1 coaching stock, were _not_ Mk I designs nor even based on Mk I.
Most first generation DMUs were proprietary designs of their builders though some lower seting density units used for cross country or intercity use were more closely related to Mk I.
Swindon built express units, later designated Class 126, were used on some Scottish services, mainly Edinburgh - Glasgow and Glasgow - Ayr. These were Mk I derived units though with a different body profile. Buckeye couplings and Pullman gangways were features they had in common with Mk I stock. They did not participate in the refurbishment programmme and never recieved the blue/white livery. I travelled daily on these units at one time.
There was quite an extensive refurbishment programme undertaken on DMUs around 1977 and it was decided to paint the refurbished units in this off-white livery with a rail blue band on the side, presumably as a publicity measure to promote this refurbishment progress to the public. I am not aware of any low density DMUs with Mk I features which were refurbished, the only DMUs I know of being high density ones.
Unfortunately, like many another livery with large areas of white paint, it tended to show up any dirt only too well and was fairly quickly abandoned in favour of standard rail blue/grey.
EMUs for the Southern Region were Mk1 stock but that is a different matter altogether and obviously would not even be eligible for "Refurbished DMU" livery.
I am not aware of any coaches other than refurbished DMUs in the blue/white livery.
Alex. W. Stirrat.
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Subject:    Re: Blue and White livery question... From:    AlStirrat To:    uk.rec.models.rail Date:    02/01/2005

Actually the vehicles in both photos at the above URLs are clearly identified on the caption as class 101 DMUs which have been refurbished. These units were a proprietary design by Metropolitan-Cammell and, while originally built during the same time period, starting in the 1950s, as Mk 1 coaching stock, were _not_ Mk I designs nor even based on Mk I.
Most first generation DMUs were proprietary designs of their builders though some lower seting density units used for cross country or intercity use were more closely related to Mk I.
Swindon built express units, later designated Class 126, were used on some Scottish services, mainly Edinburgh - Glasgow and Glasgow - Ayr. These were Mk I derived units though with a different body profile. Buckeye couplings and Pullman gangways were features they had in common with Mk I stock. They did not participate in the refurbishment programmme and never recieved the blue/white livery. I travelled daily on these units at one time.
There was quite an extensive refurbishment programme undertaken on DMUs around 1977 and it was decided to paint the refurbished units in this off-white livery with a rail blue band on the side, presumably as a publicity measure to promote this refurbishment progress to the public. I am not aware of any low density DMUs with Mk I features which were refurbished, the only DMUs I know of being high density ones.
Unfortunately, like many another livery with large areas of white paint, it tended to show up any dirt only too well and was fairly quickly abandoned in favour of standard rail blue/grey.
EMUs for the Southern Region were Mk1 stock but that is a different matter altogether and obviously would not even be eligible for "Refurbished DMU" livery.
I am not aware of any coaches other than refurbished DMUs in the blue/white livery.
Alex. W. Stirrat.
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Subject:    Re: Blue and White livery question... From:    AlStirrat To:    uk.rec.models.rail Date:    02/01/2005

Actually the vehicles in both photos at the above URLs are clearly identified on the caption as class 101 DMUs which have been refurbished. These units were a proprietary design by Metropolitan-Cammell and, while originally built during the same time period, starting in the 1950s, as Mk 1 coaching stock, were _not_ Mk I designs nor even based on Mk I.
Most first generation DMUs were proprietary designs of their builders though some lower seting density units used for cross country or intercity use were more closely related to Mk I.
Swindon built express units, later designated Class 126, were used on some Scottish services, mainly Edinburgh - Glasgow and Glasgow - Ayr. These _were_ Mk I derived units though with a different body profile. Buckeye couplings and Pullman gangways were features they had in common with Mk I stock. They did not participate in the refurbishment programmme and never recieved the blue/white livery going from original green to blue/grey. I travelled daily on these units at one time.
There was quite an extensive refurbishment programme undertaken on DMUs around 1977 and it was decided to paint the refurbished units in this off-white livery with a rail blue band on the side, presumably as a publicity measure to promote this refurbishment progress to the public. Previously these units, being regarded as "non-main line" stock had been in all blue livery. I am not aware of any low seating density DMUs with Mk I features which were refurbished and painted in blue/white, the only DMUs I know of being high density ones.
Unfortunately, like many another livery with large areas of white paint, the "Refurbished DMU" livery tended to show up any dirt only too well and was fairly quickly abandoned in favour of standard rail blue/grey.
EMUs for the Southern Region _were_ Mk1 stock but that is a different matter altogether and obviously would not even be eligible for "Refurbished DMU" livery.
I am not aware of any coaches other than refurbished DMUs in the blue/white livery.
Alex. W. Stirrat.
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Actually the vehicles in both photos at the above URLs are clearly identified on the caption as class 101 DMUs which have been refurbished. These units were a proprietary design by Metropolitan-Cammell and, while originally built during the same time period, starting in the 1950s, as Mk 1 coaching stock, were _not_ Mk I designs nor even based on Mk I.
Most first generation DMUs were proprietary designs of their builders though some lower seating density units used for cross country or intercity use were more closely related to Mk I.
There was quite an extensive refurbishment programme undertaken on DMUs around 1977 when these units were around 20 years old and selected ones were regarded as having a similar life ahead of them. It was decided to paint the refurbished units in this off-white livery with a rail blue band on the side, presumably as a publicity measure to promote this refurbishment progress to the public. Previously these units, being regarded as "non-main line" stock had been in all blue livery. I am not aware of any low seating density DMUs with Mk I features which were refurbished and painted in blue/white, the only DMUs I know of being high density ones which definitely had no relationship to MkI coaching stock.
Unfortunately, like many another livery with large areas of white paint, the "Refurbished DMU" livery tended to show up any dirt only too well and was fairly quickly abandoned in favour of standard rail blue/grey.
EMUs for the Southern Region _were_ Mk1 stock but that is a different matter altogether and obviously would not even be eligible for "Refurbished DMU" livery.
I am not aware of any coaches other than these refurbished DMUs painted in Blue/White livery, apart, of course, from the "Blue Pullmans".
Alex. W, Stirrat
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Actually, how many times are you (or your faulty newsreader or NNTP host) going to post this message, so far my server has five separate copies.....
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