BR livery/numbering queries

Hello all,

Just a few questions about numbering of some repaints currently on the workbench;

(a) The Mainline GWR-pattern box van (as per the Ratio kit also, I think; Mink C?); I had a BR grey example which now has its body on a vacuum-braked Ratio underframe. Can anyone suggest sample numberings for the bauxite version?

(b) The Mk.I RMB; as originally built and painted maroon, which ones (if any) went to the LMR? No. 1840 was definitely a ScR example (as pictured in Chris Leigh's "Modelling BR; 1948-1968"), whilst I believe the first ten or so were to a slightly different body design, and therefore cannot be modelled using the Tri-ang RMB which I am currently painting.

(c) My proposed layout is based on ex-L&Y/ex-LNW territory in the West Riding of Yorkshire, therefore it's feasible that both LMR and NER stock could appear. Did many corridor coaches (particularly BR Mk.Is) receive the 'NE' number prefix, or was this confined to DMUs and Tyneside EMU sets?

(d) The Dapol meat van kit; haven't actually bought one to built up yet, but wanted to check the livery details. Is bright red (as per the Airfix kit which I owned - and clumsily destroyed[1] - 20ish years ago) correct? Or should maroon (as per the RTR Dapol van) be used? Or, indeed, is BR bauxite OK?

All help re. any of the above will be very welcome; replies to deb107 snipped-for-privacy@btinternet.com, please.

Thanks in advance, David E. Belcher

[1] I was only about 5 at the time; model railways at this stage were confined to a Lima starter set running on the living room carpet!
Reply to
David E. Belcher
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Diagram 99 RMBs No. 1817-28 & 1864-70 were allocated to the LMR when new. The first 12 RMBs (1801-12) were to Diagram 97. Diagram 98 & 99 had extra storage space, taking up one seating bay. So you would have to fill in one window to convert to the later type, assuming the Triang one is from the first lot. The corridor side was the same in all 3 diagrams. [All this from Parkin]

Again from Parkin "...The North Eastern branded its share of the Eastern pool as NE between 1961 and 1968 (thus appearing on maroon and blue-grey stock)...". Pictures of either would seem rather rare though. Note that 1968 is when the NER became part of the ER.

HTH Simon.

Reply to
Simon Harding

The Tri-ang RMB has 2 seating bays, followed by the actual buffet area (with 2 smaller windows opposite the serving counter), then 4 seating bays. Does this make it a Diagram 97 coach? If so, allocations of

1801-1812 would be of great help (due to the location of my layout, I can probably justify 'E' and 'NE' prefixes as well as 'M'). Many thanks for the info already supplied, too.

Regards, David

Reply to
David E. Belcher

The meat vans were I think originally stone (very similar to humbrol dark earth with just a touch of white, they then went maroon. I have the details somewhere, will post asap.

Reply to
Mike

That sounds like the corridor side to me. The other side should be (left to right): lav, door, 4 bays, door, blank, 2 bays, door. That is the Diagram 97. The others lost the 4th bay counting from the left. The "corridor" seems to be just the bit past the counter area as the remainder was open.

1801 - 1812 were allocated to the Eastern Region.

Simon.

Reply to
Simon Harding

The Tri-ang one was one of the later RMBs - I used to have one. It was numbered "1850", and the larger seating area had four windows on one side and three on the other, as per the prototype. The bodyshell is identical to the one that Hornby currently produce. Making an earlier one would have to involve cutting part of the body off on one side, and transplanting a window bay from a donor vehicle - probably not desperately difficult.

Lee

Reply to
Lee Osborne

Simon and Lee,

Thanks for all the RMB feedback. I dug out an old MRC from December

1962 last night, with a very early review of the Tri-ang product in it. They state that the model's number 1807 is incorrect for that body style, so the Tri-ang offering does represent the later diagrams after all. With this in mind, my model is now M1812, sitting on Mainline B1 bogies with metal wheels, but awaiting lining and maybe some MJT cast metal buffers....

David E. Belcher

Reply to
David E. Belcher

Hope this helps . . .

Insulated and refrigerated vans were originally painted white with black lettering, this changed to a light blue (sometimes referred to as `Ice Blue') with white lettering in 1957. Some meat vans were painted a light stone (as used by the SR) in the early British Railways years. The official livery for meat and fish vans and other stock which normally travelled in passenger trains were originally crimson with yellow lettering. In 1957 they changed to maroon with yellow markings and ended up bauxite with white lettering in 1963. An exception to this was the long wheelbase LNER fish van, available from Peco, which was white with black lettering. This had a large blue 'spot' painted to the left of the body as shown.

Fig ___ Ex LNER 'Blue Spot' fish van

Banana vans, although insulated (to keep the heat in), were painted bauxite.

Gunpowder vans were in standard freight livery, although the word GUNPOWDER was displayed on the vehicle side and later on the data panel, as shown in the sketches.

Brake vans were either grey for unfitted stock or bauxite when `fitted' with continuous braking and `service stock', ballast wagons, tool vans etc. were painted black with yellow markings, usually with a large letter E. The distinctive GWR type brake van, with the veranda at only one end, was restricted in the main to Western Region rails and had `NOT IN COMMON USE' in white lettering on the side of the body. In practice these did wander however.

Departmental stock was black with yellow markings in this period, although white lettering was sometimes used, mainly on the older vehicles. The vehicle number was prefixed DB for British Railways built examples, DW, DM, DE or DS for absorbed Big Four stock (both purpose built departmental items and vehicles subsequently transferred to that role). When stock was transferred to the engineers department the DB (or whatever) was sometimes painted separately, the wagon retaining its original markings.

There were a range of additional markings applied, a lot of the departmental rolling stock were given 'fish' names as telegraphic codes and these were usually painted somewhere on the side. In some cases further information, such as the ringed CO mentioned under GWR above, was also added. There were also some special brandings painted on for the various departments such as `S&T' for signal and telegraph department stock, although these were not always applied. Do note however that this stock wandered far and wide, even into other regions and characteristic ex Southern Railway or Great Western Railway vehicles could turn up anywhere on the system.

Reply to
Mike

Thanks for the info, Mike - as my future layout will represent late

50s/early 60s practice, weathered crimson (rather than Airfix's garish pillar-box red!) or maroon should fit the bill. The blue spot applied to the fish vans apparently denoted the fitting of roller bearing axleboxes (quite rare on goods stock at that time), but don't know if it was used much on other types of wagon.

Unlike most insulated vans, though, don't forget that banana vans were steam heated. This was denoted by a large spot like those applied to fish vans, but yellow instead of blue.

Regards, David

Reply to
David E. Belcher

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