Is "sundeala" hardboard?

I am about to build a "table top" layout for an O27 system. Final size
around 6ft x 5ft (very simple layout!). I've come across "Sundeala" as a
baseboard (and various comments about how to use it) but haven't figured out
what it is.
Reading the "how to prepare" instructions about wetting it, makes it sound
like what I always knew as hardboard - is this the case?
Thanks,
Paul DS.
Reply to
Paul D.Smith
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It is not hardboard, it is thicker and doesn't warp like hardboard does. It is used because it is sound absorbent (makes for much quieter running) and you can push track pins into it with pliers to hold track in place. If gluing the track it is standard practice to pull the pins out when the glue has set. On a 1ft square frame it seems fine. I found when I used it that ballasting with stone chippings and builders white PVA glue that the ballast made things noisy, now I use Chinchilla sand and flexible PVA. Personally for the last couple of efforts at my end I have used thin ply on a ladder frame with the track laid onto 'insertion jointing' which is an even softer material, much lighter, used between slabs of concrete in the construction industry. Price per square foot is similar to Sundela, and its a bit messy to work with, but it comes in 8 ft lengths at various widths which suits shelf layouts. Get it from builders merchants. I used chinchilla sand for ballast (N Gauge), held down with a sparing application of book binding white PVA glue (stays flexible when set) and got very quiet running. Currently playing with a continental layout, N Gauge, Fleichmann track (very tight curves for the return loops but continental models handle these fine), which comes 'pre ballasted'. The newer style Fleichmann track seems fine with everything I have and I plan to glue it down with the flexible PVA, which should provide near silent running.
HTH
Mike
Reply to
Mike Smith
"Mike Smith" wrote
It bloody well does. The worst mistake I ever made when building baseboards was to use Sundela. It bows like crazy, even when braced at 12" centres.
If you must have a solid top baseboard then chipboard still takes some beating. It's maybe heavier & noisier, but it's MUCH cheaper.
John.
Reply to
John Turner
I've never used Sundeala myself, but apparently some people layer it on top of the chipboard to get the pin-taking properties (that's P-I-N!!!) without the sag. Seems like a lot of effort to me though.
Me? I much prefer lightweight ply because I'm the one that has to lug the boards about. Not had any warping with that, either!
Reply to
Paul Boyd
In North America we have a product called "Homasote", which is a compressed paper product widely used for roadbed on model railways. It is _always_ laid on top of at least 1/2" plywood, preferably 3/4" plywood, supported every two feet. Of course, we don't go for the UK style "baseboards", i.e. a large flat board upon which track and scenery is built, we generally only put the roadbed and subroadbed where the tracks will actually be and the UK style "baseboard" is only used on wide areas, such as yards and or industrial complexes. Even then, we tend to support the yard above the main frame of the benchwork so that we can jigsaw sections of the "baseboard" and raise and lower it so that the yard isn't one big flat, and boring, surface. It also make adding rivers and underpasses that much easier as again you can jigsaw out where the river or the road passes under the yard.
Chipboard in all it's various forms and names is _not_ recommended as a subroadbed as it has a tendency to sag unless overly supported, is hard on saw blades when cutting, gives off noxious fumes when cut, is difficult to pin and screw into, corners chip easily, etc., etc..
Reply to
Roger T.
Only used it once for a club Layout, and only because we got some 20 = offcut sheets 4ft by 20 inch fro Arnold Lever from a bank or shop fit = contract. Laid on planed 2 x 1 screwed to the Chipboard tops from a = previous layout.
Reply to
Trev
It's no worse than other resin based product such as MDF. Simple precaution are all that's needed. Even ply is stuck together with glue that is probably carcinogenic, or something.
Being careful not to inhale the dust applies when cutting *anything*.
Soldering, glueing, etc., are all "dangerous", why are baseboard materials always singled out?
I willing to bet that you are more likely to suffer injury lifting a heavy baseboard than from any of the processing involved in making it.
MBQ
Reply to
Man at B&Q
"Man at B&Q"
I willing to bet that you are more likely to suffer injury lifting a heavy baseboard than from any of the processing involved in making it.
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Here in North America we never lift a heavy baseboard. Once our benchwork is built, it's never moved as 99.9% of our "scale" (Vs toy train) model railways are "permanent". We build the benchwork first, that's the legs and benchwork framing out of 1x3 or 1 x 4 lumber and then we cut the subroadbed, either 1/2" or 3/4" (better) plywood cut to the shape of the track plan. Chipboard, MDF, and all other compressed wood products are strongly discouraged in North America. For single track this subroadbed will be about three to 31/2" wide and will be widened for passing sidings (loops). Even in a "town", the chances are that much of the track will still be built on a subroadbed rather than a flat sheet of ply. If the plan calls for private spurs (sidings) they will also be cut only wide enough for the track, 3 to 31/2".
Once we've cut the subroadbed, we'll attach risers to the benchwork framing, using the off cuts from the 1x3 or 1 x 4 lumber, to raise the subroadbed up to the height above the benchwork framing that we desire, anywhere from 3" to well over a foot in some cases. Then we add the roadbed usually made from a 1/2 think product, equivalent to your Sundeala and then lay track, add wiring, scenery etc., etc.. As I wrote before, we don't use solid baseboard like in the UK except under multi-track yards.
Reply to
Roger T.
My layout (in Canada but with British 00 models) is flat, on 11mm ply on a 2'x2' framework attached to the wall studs, topped with 2'x4' fibre ceiling tiles which act like sundeala but are considerably cheaper. My space is restricted (6'x8') so I don't have room for gradients and fancy scenery. In fact, some people might describe it as a toy train set rather than a model railway layout.
BTW not all N. American layouts are "permanent" - model train shows feature portable modular layouts, just as elsewhere.
Reply to
MartinS
"MartinS"
Agreed Martin but most are. :-)
Most North American portable layouts are modular and not a single cohesive design. Each module is built by it's owner with little or no regard for the scenery or theme of the next modules on either side. Most of them are really just display modules with (usually) three main tracks all entering and leaving the module with the same track centre line spacings. The idea of these modules is really for displaying the longest trains you can form. While switching (Shunting) may be possible within the module that is rarely undertaken at exhibitions. The goal being to run a train for several laps around the layout, send it back into the fiddle yard and then send another train out, once again, for a few more laps and so on and so on.
Unique, stand alone, UK style portable exhibition layouts are very rare.
Reply to
Roger T.
In message , Roger T. writes
There are also some who 'mix and match' the styles depending on what they are trying to achieve. Edmonton Model Railroad Association in Canada have a purpose built building which allows them to build on several levels.
Here's a link to pictures I took in June. Start here then work backwards to get some idea of how they make their baseboards and models - very impressive indeed
formatting link
Reply to
Mike Hughes
[...] As I wrote before, we don't use solid
Or for the occasional portable display layout.
For the N scale one I built for a trade show, I used 4" thick Styrofoam board. Lovely stuff - very light, very rigid. Scenery was built out of 1" pink Styrofoam board. Highly recommended. Glued cork to the pink foam, then glued the track in place (using pins to hold it until the glue set.)
cheers, wolf k.
Reply to
Wolf K
"Wolf K"
Using rigid expanded Styrofoam, the stuff used in North America for building insulation, the very tight rigid foam, not the stuff with the beads, is gaining popularity in North America for permanent home layouts.
I'm still not sold on it's use as our building codes require it to be installed behind drywall wallboarding and it's not to be used in exposed locations due to fire risk. A model railway doesn't meet these code requirements. Besides, lean on the scenery, and who hasn't, and you elbow goes straight through at worst or cracks the foam at best. Put down your hot soldering iron in a moment of forgetfulness and bingo, a nice hole in your scenery.
Then there is the risk of fire. Styrofoam gives off a tremendous amount of toxic smoke, which is why it has to be hidden within the walls. Can you imagine this, early in the morning, if your house catches fire with a room or basement full of exposed foam?
Reply to
Roger T.
I'm using PU rather than polystyrene, PU is fire resistant but you need plenty of ventilation when working it. Once in place and painted there is no perceptible gas.
Guy
Reply to
Just zis Guy, you know?
I think these look horrible, but Americans think they're something special. In one of his books CJF said they were tried out in the UK decades ago and rejected.
It's not just the total lack of scenic continuity but the three track straight main line parallel to the baseboard edge doesn't help either.
I have seen them, but as you say they're rare. Many clubs across the country have built them - the ones I have seen are in O-scale but then that's my own scale.
Reply to
Christopher A. Lee
Sorry, the stuff I used is a wood fibre material about half an inch thick, the correct name for which I am not certain about (the lads at the builders yard called it insertion jointing, I asked and they said that is what it eas called). It's brown, made from coarse wood stuff, a bit like a wood chip based felt, comes in 8ft lengths in widths from (IIRC) about 2 inches to about 15 inches.
Sorry for delay in responding, mum had a fall
Regards
Mike
Reply to
Mike Smith
I stand corrected - The people at the local model shop told me it was fine on a frame with 12 inch centres.
It'll make people wince but I have now built three 'shelf' type layouts using 'contiboard' pre-cut shelf boards on spur shelving (as 14 inch centres), the oldest is now about ten years old and it hasn't warped yet (and that's in a shed), although the bookshelves above have a slight dip in them between the spurs, although they are solid with books.
I'm not recommending contiboard, just commenting that it has survived better than I expected when I used it. I covered it with the wood-felt insertaion material mentioned, that is also fine.
Regards
Mike
Reply to
Mike Smith

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