LNER P1 2-8-2

The Claughton has definate possibilities, especially if Bachmann/Hornby decide on another LMS engine, but don't want to replicate an existing one. I'd rather see the Patriot, 3F and Royal Scot redone to the standards of the

8f.

No, EAR is metre gauge, one of the blockages in the Cape - Cairo railway concept. South Africa, Botswans, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Congo, Angola, Mozambique formed a connected 3ft 6in system. Through the 50s and 60s EAR equipment including the Garratts was purchased to be convertible to

3ft 6in in anticipation of a connection to the South eventually being built. This connection was eventually built by the Chinese as the TAZARA (Tanzania - Zambia Railway) but there is still a break of guage in Dar-es Salaam and it seems unlikely the conversion will ever happen. Keith

"estarriol" wrote

Unlikely I'd have thought for two main reasons:-

a) Didn't really survive into the BR era (ok I know one just did, but it was one of the ugly large boiler variety)

b) None in preservation.

A real potential for commercial failure in my opinion.

John.

Bachmann/Hornby

existing one.

standards of

How many Backmann A1's, J39's or K3 have you sold, on your reckoning you should not have sold that many as non survived into preservation...

Backmann must be about ready to call in the administrators on your logic above!

":::Jerry::::" wrote

Sometimes Jerry I despair with your logic.

The widest modelled era in current railway modelling is the BR transitional era. A1s, J39s and even K3s were extremely active during that time. Now tell me how many Claughtons were around in the post-Modernisation Plan period? Precisely NONE!

John.

reckoning

transitional

time. Now

Yes, and nor did I say that you should have sold none. My point was, none of the loco classes I listed survived into preservation yet all are advalible as RTR models, if preservation is not relevant for the loco's you want to be available as RTR models then why do you think it is relevant for those that you don't want to see?

I sometimes despair with your (thinly disguised) blatant bias against what you personally don't like...

":::Jerry::::" wrote

Oh right - and are we not afflicted in that way to some extent or other?

I don't particularly like most GWR prototypes, and they don't sell particularly well in Hull, but I acknowledge that there's a big market for all things GWR, and I think I expressed a thought not so long ago that some of the outside framed 4-4-0s might sell rather well. I'm also at one with Jane Sullivan in thinking there might be some mileage in the big GWR

8-coupled tanks

I seem to recall suggesting sometime in the past that Adams Radials and Beattie Well tanks of Southern vintage might have some potential too.

I also acknowledge that there's only a very small market for pre-nationalisation models, including the 'Claughton' which just happens to be one of my all time favourite locos. Despite that I wouldn't risk my cash on producing a ready-to-run version of this loco, and consequently wouldn't lobby any of the RTR manufacturers to do the same.

John.

Jerry - I think you'll find that, to the majority of railway enthusiasts and to the thousands of commuters who crawled off main line trains at Waterloo, "the Drain" was the Waterloo and City line. If I recall (reasonably) accurately, the stock in use on this line up to (about) the mid-1990's was of ex-Southern Railway origin; the ventilators above the end doors on each coach had a grille cut to read "Southern". Hope this is a meaningful contribution, David Costigan

risk my cash

But you then suggest in the same breath that the Adams Radials and Beattie Well tanks would be, I can think of one reason why someone like Bachmann or Hornby might just be prepared to produce a Claughton - namely that they almost certainly already have a chassis for it [1], unlike the other two!

[1] remember the history of the Claughton's, I haven't compared the wheel base of the class against that of the Patriot's but I doubt they are a million mile apart...

Opposite problem with the P1's, it seems. The trains they could pull were too long for the infrastructure to deal with, even after their booster engines (on the Cartazzi axle) were removed.

Cheers, Francis K.

I tends to suggest that slang is local, and the same slang-term can be in use in two places at the same time and meaning different things (or in this case, underground railway lines)!...

"Francis Knight" wrote

I assume the arrival of the V2s was the final nail in their coffin, so to speak?

John.

Won't it be the case though that some locos are purchased just becuase they're attractive to look at?

One of Pat Hammond's books mentions that Tri-ang found that blue locos would sell better than anything else.

And now they're bringing back "Lord of the Isles" - I suspect many sales will be made just because it's pretty, not because the buyers happen to model the relevant region/period.

Just a thought anyway!

after

No, the V2 were intended for express goods, not plodding along at under 40mph (or what ever the limit was for unfitted 9ft RCH wagons at the time.

Anyway the P1's lasted another 9 years after the first Gresley V2 was introduced.

I was surprised when Hornby introduced the GWR County 4-4-0s all those years ago. A City or a Dukedog would have been better because the Counties didn't last beyond the 1930s. Think of a "limited edition" box with City of Truro and Duke of Connaught - that would have sold more than a few.

":::Jerry::::" wrote

But it's all commercial judgement Jerry. I reckon both Adams Radials and Beattie Well tanks would sell. Both were around in the BR transitional era, both are represented in preservation and both had celebrity following to some extent or other. I think either or both would have been a better choice than a 'King Arthur' or yet *another* raft of 'Bulleid Pacifics'. As it happens I think the M7 is quite a good choice of prototype to reproduce as a model, even though it is not a particular favourite of mine.

The Claughton (or at least the small-boilered version) was a particularly attractive loco, but with interest in the pre-nationalisation scene being on the wane, I don't think it would sell in *enough* numbers to be commercially viable. Maybe it's one of those locos that will continue to require you to buiild a kit if you want an example - and there's nothing wrong with that. I'd like one, but it's not a priority for me because I've no real modelling interest in the pre-Modernisation Plan era, and I don't want one enough to spend a considerable amount of time building a kit or scratchbuilding. I'd also like a Hughes L&Y 4-6-0 but I suspect that would fall into the same boat.

John.

"ab" wrote

Inevitably, which probably explains why I have a significant collection of USA and German steam loco models, but it's only a factor in why locos sell.

The best selling steam loco in my shop in 2005 was the Bachmann Ivatt

2-6-0 - widely regarded as one of the ugliest steam locos of all time. This despite the fact that it was *up against* the new Hornby A4s and A3 models, and I'm in former LNER territory! The worst selling (recently new) model was the Q1 0-6-0 so that helps negates any argument that ugly sells for ugly sake!

John.

":::Jerry::::" wrote

Bit V"s did both fast and slow goods work, and at the same time released other locos for slow freight work which presumably meant there was no need for FURTHER P1s.

So what? They were supposedly good engines.

John.

Not being a GW modeller, I cant comment on the 8-coupled tanks (wern't they only used in south wales mining areas?) but the outside framed

4-4-0's would definitely merit an appearance! I think everyone can justify City of Truro, even if it is only hauling a railtour to the north of scotland or Kent or wherever!

ISTR reading somewhere that OO Work had asked Hornby about their future plans so as not to waste money developing a model which Margate would produce the following year, and that is why they chose the Adams Radial over the Beattie well tank. Perhaps 2007 will see a flurry of Bodmin and Wenford based layouts?

I dont think anyone is going to be able to make a pre-group layout with just RTR stuff, and a pre-nat one may well also need some kitbiulding (unless its GWR!), but the biggest market IS the post nationalisation/transition era and if an older loco survived until the mid 50's in large enough numbers, there will be a commercial case for producing it( and in a group or pre-group livery too).

I'd actually quite like to see the M7 produced in LSW livery - perhaps for the Hornby collectors club?