LNER P1 2-8-2

The reason why the LNER wanted fitted bogie wagons was to run shorter bulk trains at higher speeds so that they would not affect high speed services and as a consequence needed locos like the P1's to power them!

Ian Robinson

I can certainly remember travelling from Manchester to St Pancras in the early and mid-1950's and passing plenty of coal trains. While the majority were - by then - 8F hauled there were still quite a few behind the Garratts. Didn't Dapol one plan to introduce a 00 gauge ready-to run ex-LMS Garratt, I seem to recall that the model was planned to have a revolving bunker?

David Costigan

"David Costigan" wrote

David Boyle had more plans than I've had hot dinners, and I believe had a whole article/interview in Railway Modeller when he outlined what he was going to do.

These included an O-gauge BR(SR) USA 0-6-0T, a 4mm scale class 89 electric and the Beyer Garrett of course. And we're still waiting!

John.

":::Jerry::::" wrote

Not disputing that, but I seem to recall them getting less than favourable reviews in the various volumes by Essery & Jenkinson (from memory). Whilst I've no doubt they were somewhat more useful than the 3F and 4F 0-6-0s which they effectively replaced on the London coal trips, the 8Fs were favoured because they were cheaper to run

I'm not saying the Garrett wouldn't sell, but they would be expensive - probably £175 at today's prices, and as a result would have somewhat limited appear, although more appeal than a P1. I'd certainly buy a Garrett much more readily than I'd buy any of the new steam locos scheduled by Hornby for

2006 release.

John.

number

shorter bulk

So, if they were so un needed, why weren't they withdrawn early and rebuilt into more A3's (or possibly even A4's) - considering that the boiler and many frame components were common to both?....

Answer - Because they were a specialised loco (just like the LMS Garett's) doing a specialised job.

expensive -

somewhat limited

Garrett much

...and no doubt someone from or modelling the West Highland line would be far more likely to buy a K4 than a LNER J6 or a SR Q class!

As with EMU thread, what and why people buy is regional, someone building a model of the south end on the ECML based in the late '30's will be more interested in a (RTR) P1 than a LMS Garett - or for that matter a LNER K4...

":::Jerry::::" wrote

I ought to know, but don't - just how long did the P1s last?

I suspect when they were finally withdrawn the boilers would be retained as spares for the A3s etc.

John.

":::Jerry::::" wrote

No doubt, but the Southern modellers seem to have been very vociferous of late and have succeeded in bending the ear of the powers that be. Southern seems to be 'flavour of the month' even though Hornby ended up having to 'job out' the Q class earlier this year (20% off trade price from memory) - which presumably means they didn't sell as well as expected.

John.

class!

vociferous of

Perhaps they learnt something from the vociferous LNER / ER modellers a few years back, unless we all were just becoming fed up with yet another GWR Tank of course?!

having to

I assume that was a typo John, a Q class would have been a better choice for SR modellers rather than the Q1 class As you know, unless someone is modelling the 'railway at war', the Q1 is a post WW2 loco but the Q class entered traffic in '38. I also suspect, although un checked, that the tender would have been of more use when / if modelling other SR tender loco's - I wonder if Hornby chose the Q1 to try and cash in on, the then, up and coming the D-day / VE-day calibrations?...

In message , snipped-for-privacy@noisp.com writes

I assume you would be interested in something like this:

In message , Steve W writes

... but I'm not really into the LNER. Give me a couple of 72XXs, one on each end of the 100-wagon train.

Alternatively, I could always pull it with a _big_ American or Australian loco (see my web pages for pictures of a train of 100 British private owner wagons pulled by a USRA 2-8-8-2).

Perhaps.

But as a GWR bigot I have to say that a Duke and a Bulldog would both be very popular, and also provide Hornby with the interchangable components for a curved-framed Bulldog and a Dukedog as well. In a variety of liveries between the 1890s and the 1950s.

Four engines for the price of two, all using the same chassis.

I would also like to see the Ivatt class 2 mogul and the S15.

What, you mean there isn't already an RTR model? I'm shocked.

Cheers, Steve

But that's just because we're soft Southerners, John. Plenty of hot dinners down here, and we've got everything else. It was just a good selection of RTR models we were missing out on, and now we've got that fixed.

Personally, if it were up to me, Hornby should be reminded where they are based, and legally banned from making north-of-the-Thames items, until every possible SR prototype has been modelled....

Cheers, Steve

":::Jerry::::" wrote

Soz, Q1 is correct of course! Humblest apologies. :-)

A bit like Hornby allegedly planned to cash in the proposals to re-streamline 'Duchess of Hamilton' a few years back? Otherwise I couldn't think of many locos less likely to have mass volume, long term sales as the LMS streamliners!

John.

"Christopher A. Lee" wrote

Yes, I'm sure both would be good sellers, and would even contemplate a Dukedog myself!

John.

"Steve W" wrote

LOL - maybe they've already been listening to you and could that be why they've had to issue a profits-warning to the Stock Exchange? ;-)

John.

The 8Fs did take over some of the Garratt duties but some continued on the coal trains, but it was the advent of the 9Fs that caused their extinction. The Garratts did not move the coal in less trains, pre-Garratt the trains were double headed, what was saved was crews. The shortcomings of these locos were largely due to the LMS insistence on use of Derby design features contrary to Beyer Peacocks advice. The whole story is in Wild Swan Publications ISBN 0 906867 93 2 by Essery and Toms. Keith

1945, according to which does say that their boilers were used in A1 to A3 conversions.