Scales Mismatch - Tower Trams Model?

Hi,
I have started to build a Tower Trams Manchester tram that says it is suitable for OO\HO 1/76 scale.
After finishing the main body parts it occured to me to see how a few
OO\HO scale passengers might look in it.
From the scale difference though it seems I have all giants for figures..
I am going to have to have an all female tram as they are about the right scale.
The cab doors on the tram work out to about 21mm. My male figures are 23.5mm with a flat cap on. That makes them 2.5mm or (at 1/76) about 18cm (7 inches) too tall in real life. In fact they only just fit in the cab if I shave the shoes a little.
At 23.5mm the males would be 178cm or 5' 10'' the doors on the tram cab would be 5' 2'' and the ceiling not far above that.
Seems Manchester people were rather small back in ye old days...
Pete
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I don't know about 7 inches too tall... By my, quite likely dodgy, calculations 23.5mm equates to 5ft9 so the figures are correct. How big is your car door? Not as big you I should think!! :)

Well, I used to live on a double decker bus and the driving cab was very cramped and we had an Atlantean which is considered quite large. The cab on a Lodeka is tiny. It would be difficult to drive one with a pair of Doc Martins on for example. And if you have elbows getting the thing around corners is an artform.
Trams were made to carry people seated, so it's quite common for them to have low ceilings and people would stoop as they walked along the interior until they reach a seat. A lot of trams served places where they needed to squeeze under low bridges and were built accordingly. It may well be that your tram is the same scale as your people and conditions were cramped.
Pete
--
http://www.ukrecmodelsrail.co.uk an unofficial website for the newsgroup
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk an archive of photos from the Bristol area
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
mutley offered me a plate of cheese and whispered:

We used to *dream* of livin' in a double decker bus! Woulda been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woken up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! Double decker bus? Hmph!
--
Enzo

I wear the cheese, it does not wear me.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

to
An old water tank on a rubbish tip, a whole old water tank? People would have killed for an old water tank, we had to wait 27 years just for a place in the gutter while my dad had to work down't pit 27 hours a day, not get home until after he got up ... oh I can't go on :-)
--

All the best,

Chris Wilson
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

palace
up
Double
place
who had a place in the gutter. But my old mum, she used to keep our corner of the cess pit where we lived as clean as she could.
ZD
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Zipadee Doodar" wrote

Flash git, me granny 'ad me Mom in the cart they used to empty the earth closets with. It all got a bit messy when they tipped said cart into the slop pit. :-/
John.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Sorry. Yes. Door heights for the passenger cabin (no driver cabin) is 21mm high which is 2.5mm (7 inches RL) lower than the top of the male figures. Either way I will have to get smaller figures.

SNIP
Thanks. That gives some guide.
I have looked long and hard on eBay at a variety of figures being sold and I suspect there are quite a few different notions of what constitutes a HO \ OO workable figure height.
I suspect that 20mm (1/86) figures are about right but there are lots of people assuming 25mm (1/72) are suitable which to my eye are just too big to be visually acceptable when next to doors, ceilings or comparable structures.
I'd be interested to hear what others think constitutes the most acceptable male figure height and how they get round the problems of scale.
Pete
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Anything advertised as H0/00 is automatically suspect, just shows that the seller doesn't know what scale it is and assumes his customers won't care. H0 and 00 are two different scales which are incompatible.

A 20mm figure is 5ft tall in 00 (1:76) scale and represents a below average height adult, a few of thoise is OK, and one of them could always be a tram driver. 25mm would be 6'3", you don't want to many of them either unless modelling a basketball team.
1:72 scale items are significantly oversize for 00 and almost always look it. The current fad for 'Cararama' and similar 1:72 road vehicles is a case in point, yes they are nice models, and cheap, but put them next to your 1:76 trains and buildings and they destroy the scene.

For an individual figure an adult male could be anything from around 4'6" to 7ft. But the great majority need to be between 5'6" and 6ft to be convincing. So use the scale equivalent 22 to 24mm for 00. 19 to 21 for H0.
Scale is not a problem just a constraint if models are to look right. Keith
Make friends in the hobby. Visit <http://www.grovenor.dsl.pipex.com/ Garratt photos for the big steam lovers.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
MartinS offered me a plate of cheese and whispered:

<Enzo passes Martin a brimming glass of Chateau de Chasilier>
--
Enzo

I wear the cheese, it does not wear me.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Ee, that's reet champion, lad. Who'd 'a' thought.........
They let me drive an Atlantean around a field in Keighley a couple of years ago. OK, but pretty useless brakes!!
--
Martin S.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
MartinS offered me a plate of cheese and whispered:

Luxury! We used t' *dream* of drivin' an Atl... oh, hang on. I think this is where I came in!
--
Enzo

I wear the cheese, it does not wear me.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In blithered:

No its not!
--
If Your specification is vague or imprecise, you'll likely get what you
asked for not what you want
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
GbH offered me a plate of cheese and whispered:

Is this the five minute argument ot the full half hour...? :-)
--
Enzo

I wear the cheese, it does not wear me.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
blithered:

This isn't an argument, you're simply contradicting.
--

All the best,

Chris Wilson
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
blithered:

Oh yes it is.
-- Cheers Roger T.
Home of the Great Eastern Railway http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra /
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

No it isn't; it's just contradiction. ;-)
David E. Belcher
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

... except HO isn't 1/76... it's 1/87. Odds are your model is made to that scale.

At 1/87 those doors would be 182.7cm or 73.08 inches, just over 6'1" . Your male figures are 204cm or about 6'10". The door size sounds about right. The figures are WAY over for average height - about a foot too tall!
So, you've got a 1/87 model and 1/76 people. Start a basketball team!
--

Joe Ellis

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 12:02:18 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@mindspring.com (Joe Ellis) wrote:

Tower Trams are definitely 1/76.
Pete
--
http://www.ukrecmodelsrail.co.uk an unofficial website for the newsgroup
http://www.bristol-rail.co.uk an archive of photos from the Bristol area
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 12:02:18 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@mindspring.com (Joe Ellis) wrote:
Hi Joe,

The tram is 1/76. But if HO is 1/87 that would certainly explain a difference in the people.
Door 2.1cm at 1/76 = 159.6cm \ 62 inches or 5ft 2inches
People 2.35cm at 1/87 = 204.45cm \ 80 inches or 6ft 8inches
OR
People 2.35cm at 1/76 = 178.6cm \ 70 inches or 5ft 10inches
I am 5' 11" which is slightly over average.
Average male American height is 177 cm, which is 69.7 inches, which is approximately 5 foot - 10 inches tall. (for white males).
So I suspect the figures I have represent the average and are correct at 1/76.
See... I knew Manchester men were small :o))
That would suggest that either Mutley's note about a tram being a squeeze is correct or Tower Trams have miscalculated.
The Tower Trams notes on the plans do say that there is no remaining example of the Manchester Tram so that is quite possible.
True HO people reduced at 1/87 may actually suit this model better. 177cm / 87 = 2cm and with a door at 1mm (8cm in RL) seems far more realistic....
For now though I have big guys sitting on infants chairs :o(
Pete
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 12:02:18 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@mindspring.com (Joe Ellis) wrote:
Hi Joe,

Tower Trams say on the box the model is 1:76 scale. The same as on all the other similar Tower Tram boxes.
Unless they made a massive error on all their trams I can only assume that 1:76 is correct and the figures I have are some where between 1/76 and 1/72 scale... making them bigger.
The wheel span is the same as HO\OO as I have tried them but that may just be modellers license.
There are no preserved examples of this manchester tram but I have found a similar one in photo: (topless one..)
http://www.hyde40.freeserve.co.uk/mtms/salford.jpg
(http://www.hyde40.freeserve.co.uk/mtms/trams_around_manchester.htm )
So I'll be doing a bit of comparative measuirng.
I think the answer to this riddle is that people selling civilian figures on eBay haven't got a clue what they are selling and just make assumptions that they fit HO\OO modelling... I have even found a few war gamers who sell 20mm figures as 1/72....

For now the solution is to chop the legs off the seated passengers and refit them in a seated position.
Later I will find a 20 \ 21 mm driver.
Cheers
Pete
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.