Scales and gauges - again

Malcolm,

Watch out for doors - especially on earlier architecture like Victorian or Edwardian - since they could be 7 feet high or taller. I don't know the Ratio model, but the situation might be worse than you state :-)

Jim.

I suspect Ratio used a scale of 2mm = 1ft which would bring there door in at

6ft, possibly accurate against a known prototype. Scratchbuilding it is certainly the scaling I would be using, along with a degree of selective compression in the horizontal scale, a useful trick if you have limited space. Scale down a proper length platform to see why its done that way.

Estarriol, are you saying I should be using a scale of 2mm to the foot rather than 1:148 ?? I also assume that by horizontal compression you mean adjust the length to suit rather than use the actual conversion, isn't that cheating.

Malcolm

estarriol wrote:

Jim,

As the station I based the model on was indeed built in the 1850's the doors could be even larger than standard, especially for waiting rooms and main public entrance ??

Malcolm

Jim Guthrie wrote:

I think you calculations are lacking a little precision which becomes important at such a small scale.

1:148 = 2.059mm to the foot 12mm =1776 mm = 69.92" - very nearly 5' 10" 6' 6" = 78" = 1981.2mm = 13.386mm - near enough 13.4mm

Jeff

Jeff,

Sorry I don't follow. You seem to be making the same point as me. Or are we arguing the toss over 0.1mm (13.5 or 13.4 mm for a standard 6'6" door)

Malcolm

Jeff wrote:

It is more a method of optimising your available space than just cheating, one of the problems with Modelling Railways to a true scale of reduction is that they are huge in real life. 1 mile of a Railway at 1/148th is 11.891 yards. The trick with the compression of ground scale is to keep the proportions and try and keep it looking right.

N gague as 2mm to the foot used to be the standard sizing, in the same way

00 was/is 4mm to the foot. It is also a handy and very easy measure to use in scaling and being a fraction undersized helps with the groundscale compression.

"Malcolm" wrote

British N-scale is traditionally 2.0625mm : 1 foot - therefore your 6'6" door should scale to approx 13.4mm.

John.

Opps - better trim off that 0.1mm, now should I go inside or outside the line :-) :-)

Thanks!

Malcolm

John Turner wrote:

What's right is what looks right. Build to exact scale if you wish, but keep in mind that buldings are part of the background for the trains. The following points may help you decdie what to do.

A) Model buildings for train layouts are often built to a slightly smaller scale, so as not to overwhelm the trains.

B) Older buildings have different door sizes than the current standard, bothe larger and smaller. Eg, a renovated cottage I visited in 1995 (we admired the garden from the lane and were invited in) had a door about

5'6" high. If exact scale matters, go with the protoype, and not a supposed standard.

C) Larger buildings and building groups (eg factories, etc) are often "selectively compressed", as a full size model might would be too large to fit, even in N scale. For example, a lumber drying/storage shed still extant where the former sawmill stood in our town is about 240 feet long and 60 ft wide. That's about 18" x 5" in N, depending on the scale ratio used. In HO it would be 45"x8". (The mill itself, with storage areas, took up a space about 1 mile long and 1/4 mile wide on land, and there was a 1/4 mile long dock (wharf), too. That would be about 33ft x 8ft in N, not including the dock!)

Bottom line: Don't sweat it: just make sure the building looks right in its location on your layout.

HTH&HF

Thanks for that.

I see what you mean regarding the true sizes

Malcolm

Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:

Whose 'tradition' is that? All info I have seen about British N states 1:148 which comes out at

2.0594 mm to the foot as Jeff already said.

Keith

"Keith" wrote

Try looking and see what scale Peco and Farish work to.

2.0625 is 2&1/16th mm to one foot.

John.

Home John, Direct quote from the Farish website

" British "N" Scale runs on 9mm track as do all "N" Scale Railway models. That is at a scale of 1:160. However, the models themselves are manufactured at a scale of 1:148. " I will look out my Peco catalogue when I get time but my recollection is that the 2&1/16th mm figure was given as the approximation to 1:148 for those with odd ideas of numbering systems. Keith

"Keith" wrote

You may be right, but Peco do (or did) claim 2&1/16th to the foot, but it's all a but pedantic really, it define any modeller to work to 0.01 of a mm. ;-)

John.

This one got me pondering, as a few years ago I spent some time number of years sorting out the stocks in a company that made standard front doors as well as custom items for renovations. The standard modern front door for new-build estates is called a "metric" and is nominally 2000 mm high, although it is supplied as either 1994 mm or 1996 mm per the builders' specs (although everyone gets supplied with exactly the same door size, so much for precision standards! The doors all get trimmed to go into the frames, which are never perfectly squared).

Victorian doors are usually 6'10", with the occasional 7'0" for the grander mansions (occupied, I suppose, by GWR Broad Gauge fans). The company did supply doors as short as 6'0" for old rural cottages. Remember, the average person in the 18th century was somewhat shorter than today's specimens, and it would have been normal to stoop when entering one of these cottages.

Now, as for proportions, I live in a modest 1880 urban "cottage". However, it was an architectural feature at the time of building that all the fittings (doors, windows, chimney stack) are over-sized, as if they have been transplanted from a larger house. So this real house actually looks like a dolls-house! The front door is 6'10".

So you can get away with anything, really, and my advice is, try a bit of architectural assessment. Place a mock up of the model with some of your human figures in the vicinity. Do the relative proportions of human and door heights look "normal", or if not normal, do they look "charming" or "interesting"? Fiddle about until the model conveys what *you* want to get from it.

Another point worth considering is the "diorama" effect. This is meant to give a more satisfying vista to the model, and involves progressively reducing the scale of the model as you move from the front of the layout to the back. I guess that 99% of model houses are placed behind the railway itself, so it would make sense to have a slightly reduced scale for the house and its features.

HTH

Cheers, Steve

Steve,

That's really interesting, and thanks to all for your comments and input. I've done as Steve has suggested and have made a couple of doors and windows of various sizes and mocked up a print off to see if it "looks right" rather than bother with worrying about the "its not to scale" issue

Cheers

Malcolm

Steve W wrote:

Of course , and as for working in sixteenths of millimeters! The simple way is just to divide your prototype measurement by 148, that's why we have computers is it not. Keith

On the Metcalfe kit based on Haworth's Midland Railway station on the KWVR, the booking hall doors are 29mm high, or a scale 7'3". The Ladies' Waiting Room door is 23mm or 6'3".