Model Railway Exhibition Costs?

Legs: Unless your layout is a single board, with no joins, I would always expect to have my own layout legs. There is no way you can expect the average hall tressle table to be suitable; it will wobble, no two the same height, and you cannot get underneath the baseboards if anything goes wrong (it will). Make your legs so they can be levelled independently; assume any hall floor has a slope plus potholes and humps where you will be standing. Decide on your display height; 3ft high tables are good for children, but a stoop down for most adults. The current trend is towards higher legs, some placing layouts at eye level for a typical adult UK male (arguably a bit too high?). If you go towards the higher end, its nice to have a step-stool or two for children and shorter people.

Lighting: If you want the layout to be properly illuminated, take your own. If you are prepared to take a chance on anything from dark dingy to bright sunshine, let them supply.

Barriers: If your layout needs barriers (to keep fingers off, hold the crowds back), supply your own. I think its rare for exhibitions to supply them. Many layouts are exhibited without barriers. Some have a bit of perspex at the front to keep young kids finger-poking out of the way.

If planning to exhibit, all the legs, lighting, etc. needs to be quick to assemble, standardised parts, low weight. Design and planning is the key, a well designed setup is easy to assemble and disassemble.

- Nigel

It's not just children who need lower a base-board height but those who are disabled (those in wheel chairs etc.).

In article , Graeme writes

I'll respond as the manager of a "middle of the range" show, involved in a finished club layout and owner of a partially complete layout

Pretty true assumption but there are some cheapskates around.

Yes, tables tend to be 3ft high, can be unstable and/or full of splinters. For no other reason than the preservation of your back, you want a layout 3ft 6in to 4ft high. Personally I think the former height is about right but I am a bit of a short arse. Some people hinge legs to their baseboards but watch out for end to end rock. I use trestles which fit into the layout frame, but all my electrics are on top of the baseboards.

Advise against this, I've seen self provided systems whose only function seems to extract children's eyeballs. Some layouts insist on barriers, I don't blame them.

but will scratch or get grubby. Barbed wire is better.

Few exhibitions provide lights. On balance a good lighting system enhances a layout but they take up a lot of transport space. The exhibition manager should check out this point and locate you accordingly.

Some other thoughts. How will you protect your layout for transport? I pair boards with end protectors. How do you get it in and out your car? You may need help. How well can you operate solo? My own layout requires 2½ operators so I take four people in two cars - makes a more social event.

In message , John Bishop writes

Indeed. I have always reasonably expected that the club staging the exhibition would provide power, heat and (some!) light at their expense, plus perhaps a regular supply of tea. Unreasonable? I don't think so.

Larger clubs often provide more - meals, and even accommodation, plus travelling expenses.

How about Warley? I am told they *charge* for electricity used. Can this really be true? Assuming it is true, why would any other club or exhibitor want to attend? Please tell me I'm having my leg pulled.

TBH, I wouldn't attend unless we get fed. Remember, exhibitions are for the organising club's benefit - they are not there to put an exhibition on for the love of it, they are there to make money. Travelling expenses would also be a requirement. I would normally travel up to 1 hour to exhibit, without requiring accomodation. After a day's exhibiting, although good fun, can be hard work and the last thing you want is a slog home on the saturday night, to return sunday morning. I can't say I've ever profited from exhibiting, in fact, I would say I'm slightly out of pocket by underestimating my fuel costs.

One thing not mentioned - insurance - most organising clubs do provide a "door-to-door" cover, but check beforehand.

Cheers, Mick p.s. Done about 50 shows now, with one layout or another, over the last 20 years.

Not true in my experience running a "scale society" stand. They may charge commercial traders.

The NEC (and thus Warley show) is very strict about electrical safety, so you don't get power to your stand until the circuit breakers have been tested by the electrical safety team. The testing is sufficiently strict that there is a fairly regular trade in new RCD's to meet the local testing standard. Alternative is to have a battery powered stand; something I've seriously considered, not just with respect to Warley, but other locations with inadequate power supply arrangements.

- Nigel

Interesting. I am a member of the Train Collectors Society, and I know they were charged for electricity at the last Warley show. Hardly a commercial trader. The TCS provided a multi gauge test track for anyone to use, particularly those contemplating a purchase from a trader.

The Tri-ang Society avoided the 'electricity police' by running their layout from a portable jump start kit :-)

I wasn't at the last show, so I don't know what happened. My experience is earlier shows.

If I was charged without having been told in advance, I'd have offered the organisers a choice; supply power or we put a notice up on the stand stating that the organisers want to charge volunteer exhibitors for power, hence the absence of anything working.

If I was told in advance, and it wasn't negotiable to zero, then I wouldn't have attended. I would have told the society membership why we weren't present.

But then I can be very stroppy.

- Nigel

"Nigel Cliffe" wrote

That's not stroppy, just common sense.

John.

Not so sure about this, if you are exhibiting a layout yes the electricity, free or subsidised catering etc. should be supplied, but a society stand that is not really exhibiting but *promoting themselves* by their presence could be construed as being on the same level as a trader - in fact an exhibition manager or two might well welcome a stroppy society official who decides that they are not going to attend, either more space for a layout or a paying trader... I know from my time as society exhibitor / organiser and many an exhibition manager see the non layout exhibiting society stand as the least important exhibitor.

Taking a stroppy approach might just end up being akin to cutting ones nose of to spite ones face!

":Jerry:" wrote

Isn't that what the hobby is all about?

The actual cost of electricity to power a small trade or society stand at such a show will be minute, and if the venue owners or organisers are not willing to absorb that (in with the rent in with the rent for commercial traders) then I'm afraid charging for electricity stinks of profiteering.

John.

But isn't that what exhibitions are all about, making a profit for the organising society or who ever, I can't remember the last exhibition that was run as a charity....

In message , ":Jerry:" writes

Very true, but surely the visiting public should be charged sufficient entry fee to cover both the cost of the facilities, AND the cost of exhibits? The balancing act is ensuring that entry charges cover costs and make a profit, whilst providing a good return for money, for the attendees. One could argue that trade stands should cover costs, but one then ends up with an exhibition weighted too heavily in that direction. We all like to see trade stands, but the point of an exhibition is layouts.

Personally, I like to see a range of traders at an exhibition, but I am an 'enthusiast'. Were I Mr and Mrs Joe Public, with my 2.4 children, I think I would feel cheated were I to pay to enter an exhibition that was more about selling product than displaying working layouts.

":Jerry:" wrote

Most clubs are happy just to cover their costs, it's the commercial (or semi-commercial) shows I was referring to.

If we're going along that route isn't it about time that layout builders starting charging an economic rent to the show organisers for the hire of their layouts?

John.

Probably as well that I don't control the 2mm SA's attendance at shows :-).

However, every time I've attended on a society stand, I've been there to demonstrate aspects of the hobby; how to make X, how to use Y, etc. I've not been there just handing out membership application forms (I don't see the point for a model society; demonstrating is far more effective).

I have had heard the commercial trader argument several times. If that is the case, show organisers wouldn't ask scale and line societies to attend. I suspect the balance is a bit more subtle, the existance of these societies, whilst a paper loss to the organisers, are an attraction elsewhere, though may not appear as cash on the books. It might be in terms of goodwill from free volunteers for other tasks, or to get a few more paying visitors through the door.

If it was simply a matter of rent charged for stands, all shows would become a couple of headline layouts (to get the crowds in), and a massive number of traders paying rent. I guess that doesn't work as the number of visitors isn't high enough, or the layout owners are not prepared to attend on such a basis.

That's fine. And if they don't want the presence, the organiser won't invite society stands.

I understand that most model club shows have a difficult time making the books balance. As such, the accepted norm in the UK has been that a society stand doesn't claim travel costs, accomodation, food, etc. A layout owner gets their genuine out of pocket expenses covered, but is expected to keep them as low as possible.

But, there has been a change in some UK exhibitions, which are now quite large commercial ventures. I think the ground rules have shifted, yet most exhibitors are not aware of that shift.

Arguable. And as I said, perhaps as well that I don't control any society's attendance at shows. But, most new members of scale societies I know are now recruited via the internet, its been that way for some years.

- Nigel

They could try, but then it might be more profit for the organiser to stage a non model railway exhibition...

In my experience (done Warley twice as a commercial trader), they charge for the *provision* of power (i.e. arranging you a socket to connect to), but not for the actual power used. And no, they didn't say anything when we wired up six computers, three large TFT displays and a hulking great projector (which doubles as a surprisingly effective fanheater). I dread to think what we'd have been charged if they *were* metering it...

An effect of this is that a fault on one stand is generally contained within that stand, and thus when someone does have a problem, other stands aren't affected.

James Moody

"Nigel Cliffe" wrote

We (Fareham) have two approaches to this problem:

For the scale society we don't charge but then we don't pay expenses either unless they bring a stand attached to a layout which would be entitled to expenses.

For the local preservation society who "trade" their merchandise as well as advertising their existence we don't charge but we expect them to make a donation to the funds which reflects how much trade they have done, and they always do at about half the serious trader rate. The rational for this approach is that they are doing their bit voluntarily to promote their line and hopefully gaining support for it, but the trading they do is mostly in the way of nick-nacks which does not in itself generate "significant income".

In my experience this approach seems fairly common round these parts.

We do entertain all our "staff", both exhibitors and traders, to a free lunch and tea/coffee.

On the subject, I did see a rather nice steam era MPD in O Gauge at a show in the Greater Southampton area about 4 or 5 years ago and enquired about getting it to a show. The exhibitor came from the midlands somewhere.

Answer: £800ish PLUS hotel expenses. Needless to say said layout did not get booked.

Elliott

I think your policy is fair and reasonable.

I would be happy to attend under any of the arrangements outlined.

- Nigel