I assume with the smoking ban all those exhibition layouts / loco's with smoke units can not be used ?
- posted
16 years ago
I assume with the smoking ban all those exhibition layouts / loco's with smoke units can not be used ?
In message , Dragon Heart writes
Why? DO those smoke units burn tobacco or other nicotine products?
A friend from years ago had an exhibition layout where the track from the fiddle yard emerged, as usual, from a tunnel mouth. His trick was to blow out his cigar smoke as a train ran out.
No, but the emissions are probaly far more harmful!
Richard
What crap
Kevin Martin
Indeed - burning oil gives off all sorts of interesting chemicals, which would almost certainly gain the attention of Health & Safety if used in a work environment - so, as you say, crap!
Richard
But certainly not worse for you than smoking, which is a personal choice and its effects ought to be limited to you.
Kevin Martin
Kevin Martin said the following on 26/07/2007 14:25:
Smoking is only a personal choice for the smoker, not those around them.
The oil in the smoke units doesn't burn, it vaporises. The vaporised oil cools and condenses as it leaves the unit, and turns into minute droplets, which is what you see. Just like "steam", which is actually water (steam is invisible.)
Those minute droplets of oil sick very well to cool surfaces such as rails, which is one reason I won't use smoke units. The other is, the "smoke" doesn't look right.
The output from model railway smoke units isn't burning, it's evaporating.
I actually made the comment 'tongue in cheek' but it does appear to have caused some reaction.
I do recall some years ago visiting a model rail exhibition held in a pub function room and all the smoke alarms went off ... the landlord blamed the smoke unit from a factory chimney.
Like all chemicals these days I assume the oil used in these units come with some for of Health & Safety advice.
I assume its covered under :-
Control of substances hazardous to health (COSHH)
Smoke & vapour effects used in entertainment
Entertainment Sheet No 3
Chris
Not necessarily.
Smoke units that are used for stage shows use non-irritant smoke.
Mind you, that doesn't stop some members of each audience coughing in a very affected way if it wafts their way.
True, but its fun to bait the smokers who will say anything to justify their perceived right to smoke wherever they like. An alternative source of smoke of any type is an obvious target for them.
But was cigarette etc smoking allowed in the function room at the time? Quite possibly if it was a pub, they are known for being smoky venues.
Quite likely
Another OT thread, that's all ;-)
Kevin Martin
Dragon Heart said the following on 28/07/2007 00:26:
One thing I've always idly wondered when I see smoke effects at model railway exhibitions is if the sprinkler system is tied into the smoke alarms. I wonder how many people would mind their layouts getting drenched so someone can have some smoke :-)
beamendsltd said the following on 28/07/2007 11:29:
What on earth is so special about cigarette smoke that doesn't set off alarms? Even over-doing the toast will set alarms off :-)
Ah, right, you're an anti. No point in trying reason then!
Cig smoke *doesn't* set smoke alarms off, unless they are of the type designed to do so. But let's not worry about facts eh?
Richard
Dry Ice - we used use one with the band. Definaltely not non-irritating, but can be reather alarming when your electric guitar strings start getting damp..... (ours was a "chuck it in and see what happens" model, quite entertaining when we got it wrong).
I used to keep a packet of Throaties in my pocket - an instant cure when offered to the "sufferer" over the PA. I still keep some in the motor for very unhealthy Ramblers who come up the the Peaks with their nasty coughs ;-)
Richard
Not at all, I careless whether you smoke or not, just don't inflict it on me. Do you seriously have a problem with that?
Kevin Martin
They're just not used to what we call 'fresh air' Richard !
Chris
" Cig smoke *doesn't* set smoke alarms off, unless they are of the type designed to do so. But let's not worry about facts eh? !
Any airborne particle could set off a smoke alarm !
There are a couple of main types of smoke detectors ...... ionisation detectors & photoelectric detectors. A smoke alarm uses one or both methods plus sometimes a heat detector.
Ionisation detectors work at the atomic level ( sounds like a script from the Open University ) and have an ionisation chamber, consisting of 2 separated plates and a source of ionising radiation. The source of radiation produces alpha particles. The battery or mains power if a plug in type applies a voltage to the plates, charging one plate positive and the other plate negative. Alpha particles constantly released by the source knock electrons off of the atoms in the air, ionising the oxygen & nitrogen atoms in the chamber. The positively- charged oxygen & nitrogen atoms are attracted to the negative plate and the electrons are attracted to the positive plate, generating a very small but continuous electric current. When smoke enters the ionisation chamber, the smoke particles attach to the ions and neutralise them, so they do not reach the plate. The drop in current between the plates triggers the alarm.
In the most common type of photoelectric unit light is scattered by smoke particles onto a photocell, setting off an alarm. The latest generation of especially commercial alarms are 'tuneable' to the environment they will work in.
When I used to work for the local council we had a report of birds nesting in a council tenants roof space. I called many times until one day the door was answered and I explained the reason for my visit. He turned a bright shade of pink and confessed the 'birds' was actually his smoke alarm telling him it's battery was running down. I asked him if he had sorted it " Yes ! I removed the battery " ... some folks :-(
Chris
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