This is why I want built-in DCC...

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In my case it would be a 170 rather than a 158 but the principle is the same. Not quite the "simple job" certain posters would have us believe is it?

(kim)

Reply to
kim
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You think _that's_ complicated? Looks like about 15-20 minutes work to me. Probably could have done it in the time it took the page to load via my dial-up connection. (Wish that web site used multiple SMALLER pages!)

You should see what we have to go through with some of those N scale installations!

Reply to
Joe Ellis

Not so long ago I took a Jouef Class 40 apart in order to restore the lights (the bulbs had worked loose). When refitting the body I managed to snap the lens projections off both ends. Imagine the damage I could do to a brand new Class 170.

(kim)

Reply to
kim

"kim" wrote

It's *slightly* more complex because there is more than one vehicle involved, they have lights, and are not DCC ready.

It would be no more complex to fit a decoder to this if it had a DCC socket(s), than any other DCC ready item.

John.

Reply to
John Turner

"kim" wrote

Maybe you should have stuck to playing with soft toys? ;-)

John.

Reply to
John Turner

John Turner wrote:-

And no more complex or expensive for Bachmann to fit a working chip at source than for them to fit an empty DCC socket.

(kim)

Reply to
kim

"kim" wrote

Both options too complex for them on this and all similar units.

John.

Reply to
John Turner

Whilst this advise is posted in good faith, it is still essential to do a continuity test to ensure that pickup circuits are separate from motor circuits etc. I learned this the hard way with a fried decoder and a wrecked armature!

Reply to
titans

No? But I bet they would end up charging a LOT more for the product. Mike H

Reply to
jimedvic

In message , jimedvic writes

It would make it awfully difficult for locos to be tested by your dealer prior to sale. And what happens if one of the functions on the decoder doesn't work, but everything else does? Do you take the whole lot back to your dealer for exchange? What happens in the US with decoder-fitted locos?

Reply to
John Sullivan

I beg to differ... This is a good argument for DCC *ready*, not for DCC

*fitted*.

Adrian

Reply to
Adrian

Adrian wrote:-

It's almost as much trouble to strip a vehicle down, fit a chip into a socket and rebuild as it is to hardwire from scratch. Certain manufacturers' definition of 'DCC ready' is so vague as to be meaningless.

(kim)

Reply to
kim

John Sullivan wrote:-

It's the same as any other domestic aplliance. If just one of the hundreds of chips in your TV set goes wrong you have to return the whole set for a replacement.

(kim)

Reply to
kim

Mike H. wrote:-

Which is bad because they would make more profit and be able to invest in better products and expand their range?

(kim)

Reply to
kim

John Turner wrote:-

At the factory it is possible to fit a separate lighting chip to every coach at minimal cost, something which is totally impractical to do at home.

(kim)

Reply to
kim

Only if DCC ready means "interface board installed". But the difference in cost of a decoder vs a PC interface board so you can plug a decoder in is small. From what I know of manufacturing costs **, installing the thing costs more than the cost difference. (** I have accumulated a lot of info on this as I shamelessly quiz anyone who is involved in any kind of manufacturing.)

I suspect that you are forgetting that the retail price of a decoder is several times as high as the OEM price. A not altogether irrelevant aside: Back when you could get all sort of electronic parts from a mail-order catalogue, I noticed that single LEDs cost about $1.50 each, and were down around 10 cents each in quantity 1000 up. Reason foe the cost difference? Packaging, tracking inventory, and tracking sales, mostly. It costs as much to track the sale of one item as of 1,000; etc.

Another: assuming a common discount schedule of 40% off retail to the retailer, and assuming a wholesale cost of about 60% of wholesale price, the ex-factory price to the wholesaler will be about 24% of the retail price. That price must allow for a reasonable gross profit above materials and labour, to pay for overheads and the kids' groceries, so the materials, labour and individal packaging cost is likely to be around 10% of the retail cost. An OEM ordering bulk packaged product will get a much better price than the wholesaler, typically 1/2 or less, so -- do the math! An OEM that rolls their own can realise even greater savings - hence Bachmann's decision to do so.

Reply to
Wolf Kirchmeir

I'm well aware of the issues surrounding economies of scale. I never said anything about the costs. In fact, elsewhere, I have said that for a difference of say £5 (if Lenz can sell a decoder for £9, I'm sure Bachmann can buld one in for considerably less), I'd like them to do so. One day, I plan to go DCC, and I'd like to be able to just carry on running the same stock....

However.... I am led to believe that a DCC - fitted loco will NOT necessarily run on a DC layout. It depends on the type of controller being used (true-DC or pulse-width mod). Now, if the DCC is built-in (as opposed to plugged into a socket), it's a major rewire to make it DC-friendly. Also, just bear in mind that a significant section of the DC market wouldn't even consider buying a loco that they would have to take apart and rewire.

Now, if Bachmann et al can come up with a system where the DCC can be enabled or disabled (preferrably without taking the thing apart), without affecting the price too much, then I'd welcome it.

Adrian

Reply to
Adrian

The Bachmann 158 isn't DCC ready though - never has been.

--

***
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*** Rich Mackin (rich-at-richmackin-co-uk) MSN: richmackin-at-hotmail-dot-com
Reply to
Rich Mackin

Nope, which is bad from my point of view because I end up paying for something I neither need nor want. Ultimately I buy a different product. Therefore less money for better products etc. Mike H

Reply to
jimedvic

No, in North America, you unplug the decoder and insert another.

-- Cheers Roger T.

Home of the Great Eastern Railway

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Reply to
Roger T.

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