about newbie welders....

I dont know about the rest of you guys but being an experienced welder and seeing these posts about inexperienced welders wanting to build trailers with a small machine thats suited for sheet metal, and towing these trailrs at 70 mph down the highway kinda scares me...

Reply to
DSchledewi
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as much as i really like seeing newbies get started into welding (their excitement reminds me of my own once upon a time), i have to agree with you.

Reply to
Nathan Collier

Darwin will prevail.

I built some stupid stuff in my time, but at least no one got hurt.

And I really don't get this ............ I can go BUY a NEW trailer from a friend of mine who has a dealership - have a great trailer - don't have to paint the thing - don't have to spend many an evening and weekend working on it - and spend about as much. Now, there are those who say they save money on the labor, but what do they charge when doing work for someone else? If you multiply that times the hours, and consider that as part of the cost, you can go buy one for less.

AND my friend doesn't give me THAT good a deal.

Now, it is nice to have a trailer just the way you want it, and add all the little goodies. But you can order the basic trailer how you want it, then add the additional stuff yourself.

If a newbie isn't sure about the welding, how are they going to be sure to get critical things like alignment, balance point, center of gravity, tongue weight, etc. right?

A newbie welding on shackes. And most would do it with their 110V. HF MIG.

Scary stuff.

Reply to
SteveB

Reply to
Roy J

I am a newbie welder, but I would not dream, even in my worst nightmares, to trust my welds to anything like a trailer. Do you feel better? ;-)

Reply to
jerry_tig2003

I, personally feel better about YOU. You realize you have some limitations and limited experience. There are some others that will go ahead and build stuff and run it, and haven't got a clue if it is safe or not. Some people think if you stack bubblegum and gorrilla welds high enough, it will hold ...........................

Steve

Reply to
SteveB

make the recommendations.

trailer = 200A minimun machine, very clean metal, precision fitment, civil engineering handbook, welding handbook, materials handbook, set of plans, time.

anyone ("newbie") can achieve anything, they just need the knowledge available to them.

did anyone tell the newbie it's ok to build trailer with a 100v 90A mig ? i hope not.

i'm in the "newbie" category, recently built a nice big cargo carrier, approx 4ft x 3ft, connects in to a 2x2 receiver hitch, carries small/medium quad and junk very well. all done with my esab 161.

Reply to
Kryptoknight

You gotta remember: Steel yields a helluva lot before final failure. Most assemblies are overwelded. Very flexible assemblies scare the hell out of beginners. In Canada rolling stock is one of the few welded components that do not require a welding code. Pressure vessels and steel building structures require a code. Build a logging trailer and there is no one standing over you reminding you of some clause that requires a particular weld joint prep or preheat. Now that is scary!! Randy

Reply to
Randy Zimmerman

And there are those of us that don't believe it is really theirs unless they built it. The last trailer I built had the design objective of costing less than the cost of registering it.

The first one went from Boston to Santa Clara County.

In my experience Newbie Welders are really concerned about welds holding and are likely to over weld. But in case any Newbie Welders are reading this, do practise on scrap and do you best to break the welds until you are sure that the welds will hold.

Dan

Reply to
Dan Caster

I can only do so much. ;-)

Yes, I have a friend who demonstrated this type of welds (braze actually) when I asked him to show us his oxy-acetylene rig. The lightest touch with a hammer and ping, they would separate.

Personnaly, I tend to insist on the edges of the pieces to be really melted, and this is one of the reasons I did not go the MIG route. It seems that it is really easy to make "stick-on welds" with MIG (compared to stick or tig). Generally, destructive tests on my welds showed the rule "melt both pieces" to prove valid on iron. On aluminium, though, I had the unpleasant surprise to find some nice looking welds to be porous and weak.

Reply to
jerry_tig2003

Reply to
David Billington

You would have hated the first and also the last trailer I built. The first one was built when all I had was oxy/acet. Slow but worked well.

And the last was done with a Lincoln 175 Mig welder. But it is a ultra light trailer. The axle is from a Plymouth Horizon rear end. And the frame is made from 1 by 2 channel used for industrial shelving. Do not have a civil engineering handbook, but do have a few of the Lincoln Foundation books. No set of plans. It is only good for about 1000 lbs.

The trailers I built between those two were done with a SMAW good for

230 amps, but I certainly did not use that much current.

Dan

Reply to
Dan Caster

many accidents have you seen or even heard of involving a novice welder's trailer coming apart? I have never seen or heard of one. How many accidents come from cell phones? Many, many that I have seen and heard of. If welds fail in mild steel, they are rarely catastrophic. They tend to be gradual. A trailer would not just disintegrate at 70 mph. Come on!

Some of the worst welds I have ever seen have been done by people who call themselves "professionals". I have repaired lots of fitness equipment made by "pros" who just slap MIG beads on top of steel. Pretty and weak.

Reply to
jswatek

This is true. Even worse are the welders who joint the front corner with decent welds, then grind them all the way off to look pretty before they are painted. That is where they crack first.

On the other hand, as a beginning welder, I'd have to put my work through some rigorous testing before I'd completely trust it.

Reply to
Scott

Quite a few, but then I've been following this sort of thing for several years. Some are by people that consider themselfs "real" welders by the way, like the guy that works as a laborer at the "you name it" general contracting yard who just happens to know how to weld "really good". The worst, in my little collection, would be the tie down eyes that broke off, allowing a compactor to slide off the side of the "home built" trailer and kill a young Mother along with her infant. Another that rivals that one was a trailer coupling that let go with the same result, death of an innocent party. The first was in Kansas in the late 80's, tha latter in Arizona in the early 90's. If you make it a point to pay attention to these things, you will be suprised by the number of accidents caused by poor welding. That is why I pay such large premiums for liability insurance on my welding business, if there was no problem with junk welds letting go and causing damage, my premiums would be nice and small.

I have never seen or heard of one. How

You trully need to explain this to my insurance carrier! That would save me several thousand per year!

If you consider a production line welder, sticking together "fitness equipment" with a squirt gun to be "pro" welders, then you need more help than is ever going to be available on the internet!

JTMcC.

Reply to
JTMcC

throughout the years ive worked many production lines and you couldnt be more right. if the workpiece doesnt break when they stack it on the pallet, it passes QC. i never could make any money working production on a piece work rate because i actually cared about the quality of my work.

Reply to
Nathan Collier

"JTMcC" wrote in news:qguwb.2758$ snipped-for-privacy@news01.roc.ny:

LOL! Well John, they are "Pros" after all they get paided. LOL! People that have never been around the merri-go-round, DO consider this type of welding as proffesional! They do get paid after all! LOL!

Hey jswatek, (the one who thinks production weldors are the savy of the welding trade) When I managed a manufacturing facility long ago, I could train somebody that never welded before, to do this type of welding in a very short time. The machine is preconfigured for them, and everything is jigged, all they do is "squirt some tooth paste" on the assembled.

80% of the time it is a poor, hard working green card individual, or other, that has never welded a day in their life. They are some poor hard working laborer in the facilities, that normally makes poverty wages,(by many's standard) promoted to "weldor" to "weld" at poverty wages, that do this type of welding. Enough said. So it's not much, to "compete" with this type of "Pro" welder. The difference is, they work hard for nothing, and are glad for the "little" promotion they get from a "menial labor job", they started in, to have the "oppertunity" to become a "weldor". What a *victory*, to claim "fame" over this type of "weldor". I'd get my club out and beat them. LOL!

Kruppt

Reply to
Kruppt

As a "newbie welder" my first project which I used as an excuse to purchase a Syncrowave 250 was a cargo trailer project. Since I did not trust my welding ability, I used a commercial 4x8 utility trailer as the base and then welded up a box frame to go on it.

Even for the less critical cargo box, I made a number of test welds and beat the piss out of them before I was comfortable welding the box frame. As an extra safety item, the skin for the box was pop-riveted on so that even if the welds failed it would still stay together. This was about 7 years ago now and there is still no sign of any failures.

I have since taken a course or to at the local tech school, and still consider myself a "newbie", but my projects hold together fine, and I love my Syncrowave.

Pete C.

Kruppt wrote:

Reply to
Pete C.

I am not sure of the point of this thread. Are you saying that trailers should be welded by professional welders as opposed to production line welders? How many trailers are NOT welded by production line welders? I don't think we need to worry about newbies welding trailers we need to worry about the "pro" production line green card toothpast squirting welders!

Reply to
jswatek

wrote the entirely correct following words:

I may have started this in response to Nathan's post. I said that when a welder got paid for welding anything, they were a professional. I agree with you that there is a cause to worry about "pro" production line workers making product that can cause injury or death.

There is a difference between a professional and a "pro". I grew up in Las Vegas. I heard many referrences to some old timers in the gaming business, and they said, "Old Joe was a real pro." After hearing this about people, I asked an oldtimer who I respected. He said, "A pro is a person who does a good job no matter how they feel." I always remembered that.

In regards to welding, anyone can buy a machine and think they are a welder. A "professional." Just like you can buy a boat and go drive the thing 70 mph and have never driven a boat before. In conversations, when welding comes up, I usually listen for a good while before entering the conversation to see if these people even know WTF they are talking about. I usually don't join in, and sit back and chuckle to myself about the things discussed. Real welders I have known for the most part talked about the Rams and fishing and nookie when they get together. (Except when we would come in off a pipeline job, and they were decompressing and letting off steam about things on the job.)

You can take a few bananas and a half an hour and have a monkey wirefeeding. Most humans take a little longer. The difference is that if you follow the careers of both, the monkeys get good at it. To wit: look at most production welded stuff. I have a problem with anyone who can weld the same thing for eight hours a day and still not get it to look good after three months on the job. Production line welders are not reflective of the whole trade. IMHO, if a production line welder gets good at it, he (hopefully) goes on from there. If he doesn't, he is a career production line welder. I have seen production line welds that I would have NEVER passed. And most from "experienced" weldors. I fix stuff all the time that was production line welded.

And then there is stupid and sloppy. I don't mind someone who is stupid, but I hate sloppy. Doing something sloppily and not caring. Stupid you can train around. Sloppy is just an attitude. And sloppy comes in sometimes when you let yourself be pushed to do as much work as you can and not be watchful of the quality. Or when one is just a hired monkey and just doesn't care.

My apologies to real monkey weldors for the above sentence.

Steve

Reply to
SteveB

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