Another bunch of welds...

congratulations. Many of us know the feeling of "the uphill path", albeit an engaging and interesting one most of the time, apart from those times we are almost reduced to tears :-)

I'm having to work hard on a challenge set which sounds simple but proves not to be.

The task:

For a T-fillet joint on 3mm (1/8th-inch) plate in the flat postion (ie. the joint tipped at 45deg so the corner you are welding presents itself as a level channel), deposit a single run fillet using SMA with a 2.5mm (3/32nd-inch) "straight" rutile (6013) rod (that is, not a rutile-cellulose, which many 6013's are).

Obviously, it should be a good fillet with fillet corner fusion.

What you will get will never have the strength matching the plate. Corner fusion says the run-rate must be fast so you are arcing against the fillet corner. You will have a small concave fillet way undermatching the plate strength. The point is, this is an exercise in control.

What I have found is, any imprecision in arc length (short but not dragging), rod slope (30deg - not more nor less), rod tilt (absolutely upright), position (centred above fillet corner) and run-speed (very steady and fast enough to avoid being over-run with slag and get penetration) - and you get defects.

Another poster recently described the exasperating tendency of small rutiles to adhere to one plate or the other - the thread title is indicative "can't get a 6013 weld on a t join. complety gone bonkers!!"

I understand the sentiment... and I would claim to have a modest but reasonable range of proven skills already!

BTW

On 3mm plate T-joint, found 2.5mm 6011 (celluosic) at 70A gave guaranteed corner fusion and a nice controllable bead given a bit of "whipping motion" (backwards and forwards) and that 3.2mm (1/8th-inch) rutile 6013 at 125A could be allowed to rest on the corners and gave a fantastic bead with good side fusion, though a consistent tiny absence of corner fusion. Both these investigated by nick-break and by etch. Both be really good joints in practice (?) and easy to make.

Richard Smith

Yes, I share the feeling...

Yes, I remember that post, indeed.

I will read again on making fillet joints, maybe a different electrode would help...

Practicing on corners and fillets will soon be my next stage. I will have to go and buy more steel.

You know, if you weld on both sides, then side fusion is all you need, right?

i

Iggy:

Getting better!

But:

1) Looks like you are using 6013 and are holding the arc too long (lots of spatter on some). It should be 1 rod diameter MAX. 6013 can even be set on the edge of the flux and just let it burn back ie 'drag rod' 2) You do not seem to have yourself braced so you can control the rod. Brace your hip and your working hand elbow braced, control the stinger cable by clamping it with your hip, use your non working hand under your wrist, perhaps with a block under your non working hand to prop it up. 3) You need to see what you are doing. Bend over to one side and get REALLY close to the arc, say 12" or so. 4) The arrow shaped beads are usually caused by holding the rod at too high an angle or going too fast. I's suggest tipping it about 15 degrees off of vertical in the direction of travel. 5) Arc start and uniformity is with practice. You need to take the plate you are showing and fill in ALL the spaces in between your welds (make the plate thicker) You need to burn about 5 to 10 pounds of 1/8" rod before things start clicking. IIRC 1/8" rod is 16 to a pound, each rod will do 2 6" beads, that is 160 to 320 of the welds you are showing. (!!!)

Practice, Practice, practice!!

Ignoramus1797 wrote:

Thanks Roy. I will practice more this Saturday and will follow your suggestions. I will save your post.

My problem is that, unfortunately, my hands shake and I can do nothing about it. It could be due to my thyroid issues.

i

Figure out how to brace the stinger with both hands. Your working arm (right if right handed) should have the elbow braced into your ribs. Set a 4x4 block down on the bench, prop the other wrist on the 4x4, holding the wrist of the working hand.

Another little drill to do: With the welder turned off and the helmet up, hold the stinger and rod tilted 15 degrees off of vetical. Next, look at where your hand will be after you burn 6" of rod doing 4" of weld bead. Your arm goes DOWN more than it goes BACK. This is obvious but not intuitive. Make sure you can brace yourself in both positions.

Ignoramus24489 wrote:

Roy is way more experienced than I am, so I hesitate to throw in a couple of cents' worth, but ...

Holding the stinger in my right hand, I find I get the best control if I can position my work so that I can put my left elbow down on the table, and let my left arm pivot as I guide my right hand with the stinger. (Obviously you would reverse this if left handed.) I also find that I am better able to complete the entire motion if I do not *hold* my right wrist with my left hand, but instead rest my right wrist *on top of* my left hand--it's a brace, not a clamp. Obviously, depending on what I'm welding, I can't always achieve this optimum arrangement, and I certainly have braced my left elbow against my body as Roy suggests; that works for me, but not as well.

As Roy said, it is important to be sure that you will get good bracing all the way across the weld. Nothing messes up a nice smooth bead like realizing you have to move your bracing arm halfway through! Practice with the stinger but no rod to see how you will move smoothly down and across. Also, be sure that you are not gripping things too tightly -- that will make your hands shake more.

But all of this is about getting better -- you're not doing badly, especially for the little time that you've been doing this. Boy, oh, boy, some of the first projects I welded up ... I'm not sure why they haven't come apart just because of sheer embarrassment. I've been welding for a couple of years now, and even though it is only now and then when I get the chance to indulge the hobby, it is amazing how much better my welds are than they used to be. Of course, there are still those times when I feel like I'm just beginning ...

Andy

Good point. I will try that.

i

Thanks. I will definitely try to improve my bracing. Welding without bracing, though, sometimes is necessary also, so I will practice both.

i

Yeah, heck, I've seen lots of manufactured products (smokers, boat trailers, etc.) with welds a LOT sloppier than this. You're doing fine, now get in there and do some projects!

Ron M.

Thanks. I am dying to get rid of my spouse and the kid for a few hours and get something real welded.

i

I wish I had space for a welding table. I would then definitely follow your advice.

I do not have such space. That includes putting the table on casters. Pretty much everything in my garage is on casters already.

What I plan on using as a welding table, for the time being, is a

2x2 feet "patio block" put on a regular folding office style table. i

Do you have any saw horses? What works well in your situation is a pair of saw horses and a piece of medium weight plate. Say 3' x 3' of

3/16" plate wouldn't be to heavy to lift onto the saw horses. The saw horses could be folding models which would store flat against the wall. They could also be used in many other ways. One thing that I do is use a old plain steel clad door (like a standard exterior house door) and put it on the saw horses. Makes a great light weight but strong temporary work bench (though I wonder about the temporary sometimes, mines currently been set up and covered in backlog projects for close to a year now).

It would be preferable if the saw horses are made from steel (metalworking content). I've not seen any steel folding saw horse but designing some shouldn't be to much of a problem. The ones I use for my table are just made from 2" schedule 80 pipe and very simple in design.

Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX

Wayne, that's an interesting thought. I have some junk steel pieces that may fit. I will keep this in mind.

i

A friend of mine has a unique table. He uses two heavy saw horses..but the 1/4" steel top hangs from cables from the rafters and he lowers it down on to the saw horses when it needs it. Its only 4x4..so its not terribly heavy and has some stiffeners(L steel tacked as a V across the bottom. After lowering it on to the saw horses..he removes the carabiners from the 4 corners..and lifts them back out of the way.

I think he has Chinese Puzzle Maker Genes..he has more shit packed into that shop than anyone Ive ever seen, but it all fits and he has room to work.

Some fascinating utilization of space.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

GOOD steel sawhorses can be the basis for many tools/setups/benchs.

Though..if used for cutting wood..extra care has to be taken not to run the Skillsaw blade into the top rails.....sigh...been there..done that....bought a new blade.... "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

When you say 2x2 patio block, are you talking about a piece of concrete? If so, please don't go there. The heat from welding will make concrete explode, or so I have been told. (I have not wanted to try it out!)

The steel plate and sawhorse idea is much, much better ... but are you sure you don't have some little corner somewhere that a small cart can live? Mine is not very big -- maybe 18" by 24" -- but it suffices for an awful lot of what I need to do. I have drawers to hold rods, grinding wheels, files, soapstone, etc., and a shelf to hold some jigs, a vise (when it is not mounted on top), my leathers, etc. I have holders along the sides to hold several angle grinders, a helmet, hammer, brush, etc. It's amazing how much can be packed into that little space -- basically all of my welding stuff except the welder itself!

Let us know what you wind up with ...

Andy

Yes, that's a viable alternative.

That's correct, I do not have such a corner. I need to find space for a 3 HP bench grinder also.

I will probably end up with some "plate

o