Extreme welding

Geeze... Thanks for the links. I think I'll just stick with thinking about that hypothetical 'mains-welding' thing...

Talk about nit picking. It was a Snapon SDD12 with a .437" shaft. Ya made me go out and dig up the stub. Yeah I saved that sucker close to 30 years now .. sorta reminds me to think .. what I was atempting to do for you. Sorry I failed.

Yeah, I see yer point, sorry about that.

Sorry, (but appreciate you doing that)

Oh ca-mon know, was that last comment really necessary ? Actually, that was the sole purpose -of- the original thread, to promote discussion about such things as basic electricity, and welding etc. (sorry if I failed there). That said, and back to the 'hypothetical' at hand, tell me more about the stub. I know you said it fell accross some mains somewhere, but what were the specifics ? Was was the service?

220 @ 200Amp residential, or something bigger ? Most residential service entrances are 2/2/4 Al, with the 4 gague aluminum being the neutral. Depending on how the SDD12 fell accross these mains, its also possible that the fault current would have flowed thru the #4 to the pole, and took out the neutral wire. I've been on sites and seen that happen - customers then report some light bulbs in the house blowing out, and others glowing real dim. (with a missing neutral to pole, the effective voltage of each of 110 phase bars would now depend solely on equal loading of each phase)

Anyways, on my hypothetical, the thinking was this: Take a 1/8" AC rod (6013, 7018, 14, whatever)... Once the initial arc is established, the tip of the rod beads up inside the rods coating limiting the surface area that the arc zone would ever see. In the case of a SDD12, you got 1/2" of surface area. If after that initial flash, there was enough inductance to maintain an arc, you would get some natural current limiting and be able to weld to some degree. (Albeit pretty damn hot and fast welding with a long arc). To limit initial inrush/short circuit current (because of little, or no inductance), you can make a bank of resistors in series, like a bank of resistors in paralell to equal 1.1 Ohms (100A=110V/1.1 Ohm). Coiling the welding cables might provide a bit of inductance also. But again, this is all a "hypothetical" - no need for everyone here to come unglued. Maybe I could have done a better job at making such disclaimer in the original post. But I do appreciate your dialogue.

"Mr Wizzard" wrote: clip) Actually, that was the sole purpose -of- the original thread, to promote discussion about such things as basic electricity, and welding etc. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'm getting ready to pose a question to a brain surgeon's newsgroup: "Have any of you considered doing brain surgery with a big rock?" Just to bring a fresh discussion of basics to a group that probably can't think as clearly as I can.

Knock yerself out (pardon the pun), but I'm talking about welding and electricy, not 'big rocks', so not seeing your association - this isn't 'brain surgery"... So I'm thinking about this ["hypothetical"] line welder and the possibility of putting in a 1.1 Ohm resistor bank to limit short-circuit current to 100Amps. Also thought about a bank of 10-20 2N3055 transistors to limit the OTV. The transistors in line with the mains would also act as a rectifier as to make a CC/CV brute-force deal. ("Hypthetically" that is...)

Just to bring a

Put a ccoin behind the fuse and wait for the arc....

Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see: Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things)

void _-void-_ in the obvious place

I admire and respect the guy, and wish I could emulate his success with electrical equipment.

I caused a University to implode on itself doing my type of stuff -

I do admire endeavouring.

From what I know of projects, he has had to work hard to do what he has done.

I have worked in the USA, where I assume you are from talk of mains voltages, and do admire the American go-do-it attitude. That is the good part of America I hold a strong affection far.

Richard S.

I actually did something sort of like that about 40 years ago ( I've grown wiser as I've aged, though). I put a 1500 watt hot plate in series with 2 carbon rods that I dug out of a couple of D sized flashlight batteries. Plugged the contraption into the wall socket and with a little practice was able to maintain a stable arc between the carbon rods. I didn't try welding with the setup, but it was fun at the time melting just about anything imaginable, and hey, I'm still alive to write this aren't I? Ahhhhhh the good old days when curiosity trumped wisdom. Paul........in Redland

"Paul in Redland" wrote

hey, I'm still alive to write this aren't I? Ahhhhhh the

I guess it was Darwinism that kept some of US alive. I say US because when I think of some of the stooooopid things I have done, and gotten off light, there was something else working there besides my brain.

Steve

Darwinism?????????? Crap, I always thought it was just blind luck. Anyone besides me used to dump gasoline into manholes as a kid and then talk the next door neighbor kid into dropping a match in? ........Christ, I feel like I should be typing in some kind of disclaimer here. Paul...........in Redland

When I was a kid, we once tossed a firecracker down a manhole cover slot.

Baboom!

The lid shot straight up, and made a hell of a racket when it landed.

We, of course, (not being idiotic kids) fled the area while he lid was spinning and bouncing around on the street. My hearing hasn't been the same since.

Steve

I sold double length firecrackers - China Town (dragons :-) ) (side trip from the fish supplier on another floor of a side building.

A border - one of the three machinists living in our house in the early 50's - (B-36 specialists) - made me a lady finger pistol. It was cool - noisy but lots of fun. - The blast coming out of paper and pressure was neat. Just couldn't aim at the ground - can't soot a foot....

Somehow the gun showed up missing - have to ask Dad if he remembers it and what he recalls - the man who bent the noise making toy springs the day after Christmas... :-)

Martin

Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH & Endowment Member NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member

Steve B wrote:

There might be a connection, or maybe a chemical bond. In 1984 James Huberty entered a McDonalds in San Ysidro, CA, ( San Diego), and killed 21 and wounded 19 before being killed by a Police sniper. His widow unsuccessfully sued McDonalds in 87 claiming that a flavor enhancer in Chicken McNuggets reacted with the high lead and cadmium levels built up in his body from being a weldor for 14 years.

Only once? Jees, after we did the gasoline thing the first time, it became a ritual in my neighborhood. We'd launch the manhole covers about 5 ft. I have often wondered what happened in the toilet bowls that were near by during our a, er, um......... experiments. Paul.......in Redland

I've heard............

you CAN weld, but you do it with a 100w bulb in series on a 20a circuit off the breaker box. you use real small wire and get the 2nd worst welds even possible.

But I've heard it can be done. IIRC this was from some old stickwelders that learned on machines that would make archeologists stand up and take notice

Dangerous yes - possible yes - done all the time by electricians - either with a hot lead or a screw driver dropped into a hot box. Both dangerous - very - but it happens. A student of mine years ago came in with the story of his dad getting 'plated' about the face and hands dropping a large screw driver down a high voltage - naturally high current power panel at the University.

Martin

Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH & Endowment Member NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member

Tater Schuld wrote:

"Tater Schuld" wrote in news:iVW2g.92$ snipped-for-privacy@fe02.lga:

A 100 watt light bulb in series with your electrode would allow you to weld at about 1 amp which would not give you much welding power. If you were to use several stove or dryer elements in parallel you could get enough current flowwing for burning some thin rod. You would also generate an amazing amount of heat. Welding power supplies transform the high voltage, low current from your hydro service to the low voltage, high current used for welding with very little loss of power. Trying to weld directly from your service panel you are limited to the current that you can draw before tripping a breaker and you must also dump all of the excess voltage not needed for welding as heat. If you tapped directly into your panel and wanted to draw 100 amps from a single 120 volt phase you would need to dump about 90 volts or about 9000 watts.

Oh? Ohms Law says the resulting current, accounting for the non-zero resistance of the leads, electrode and material being welded, would be LESS than the current normally drawn by the 100W bulb. (About an amp.) And the power would be primarily dissipated in the bulb, not the weld.

I think you'd only get a flickering bulb.