OT: 77' Pontiac Bonnevilles and Bio-diesel?

The deisels used in pickups today are very heavy, much more so than a gas big block, and very expensive. The Cummins option from Dodge runs over $5000. To buy a good running Cummins (Dodge), International (Ford) or Isuzu (Chevy) will be several thousand. Parts are also much more expensive, a rebuilt starter for a pickup diesel runs from over $100 to several hundred. Injection pumps start around $400 on and old 6.9 to several thousand on new trucks. Granted, they don't require much maintenance, but it is expensive when they do. Most hold around 3 gallons of oil, again raising the cost of maint. These engines shine however, when worked hard, and continuously. The smaller diesels, such as the 4 cyl Cummins, are still heavy, expensive, and suffer from a fairly narrow powerband. Of course if one is determined, there is usually a way. An old VW diesel such as in a Rabbit would be a cheaper alternative, but too small to pull your Pontiac effectively. Mercedes engines and parts are REALLY high priced, but the size of the engine is more appropriate. If he wants to run bio diesel, I think a real good option would be to get an old VW Rabbit. My Dad had a coule of them and they were underpowered, but on regular diesel, he got over 40 mpg, and had fun doing it. As you said, check all fluids on used cars! And do it frequently untill you determine the rate at which it gulps!

regards, JTMcC.

Ernie: I would just replace the mill with A gas engine if the originals toast as the front suspension is way undersprung for A diesel of the size you would need to run this bucket at highway speed and replacing the spring's and shock's with custom made item's would be cost prohibitive. There is A newspaper type magazine called Farm Show that has lot's of crazy truck's and car's repowered with diesel engines out of combines and tractors and most of them have great pulling power for hauling trailers full of big round hay bales but there top speed seldom top's 60 and if you drive on the freeways at 60 or less around here you'll get run over! Cummins engines are what you would need but they are virtually nonexistent on the used market and if you can find one it would cost mucho dinaro. The fuel tank will need to be removed and cleaned out and more than likely there will be rust holes under the strap's which will have to be welded or the tank replaced. So far, A rough estimate of 6 to 7 thousand would have to be allotted for the conversion. You can buy A lot of gas for the cost this project entails and you don't know what kind of driver you would have until the project was finished.

Good luck! H.R.

Unless my memory is failing (a distinct possibility), the 301 Pontiac was a little longer casting than a small-block Chevy, which it was otherwise similar to. 'Don't know about transmission bolt patterns, but you may get lucky with dimensions, and I vaguely recall that the motor mounts were identical. I think. Ask an expert, but the Chevy would be a potentially cheap solution.

Ed Huntress

I'm fairly certain your memory is failing, Ed. The 301 Pontiac engine was just like the regular Pontiacs (326?-455) but it had a shorter deck height and was elsewise lightened by late 1970's GM corporate cheapifying of castings and such.

I know this only because in my younger and wilder days I had a 1979 Grand Prix that I blew up the 301 in (not really too difficult of a feat to be truthfull) and I replaced it with a 400 from an older GP. It's a direct swap, motor mounts and bellhousing are the same.

I might be misremembering myself on this point, but I believe the transmission bolted to the current 301 will fit any of the Buick-Olds-Pontiac motors. I believe they all use the same design, different than the venerable small block chevy.

Since the Bonneville in question came with a POS 301, you might also be cursed with a damnable TH-200 transimission also. I wouldn't be afraid to jettison that pile of crap in favor of a TH-350 or 400, though some mods would definitely be in order for the drivetrain.

Dick

Who spent way too many hours laying on a driveway covered with oil and dirt to misremember anything about that damned Grand Prix!

Well, this much I remember from incidental discussions in SCCA, when I was a tech inspector at about the time this car was built: the 400 was supposedly a thin-wall motor, made with Pontiac's knock off of Ford's thin-wall technology, and the 301 was basically Son of Small-Block Chevy. It had wider cylinder spacing than the Chevy.

But my memory tends to be in bits and pieces. There was a cheater Firebird running around in TransAm racing in the northeast about that time that supposedly had a Chevy small-block in it, for whatever reason, and there was some noise about the fact that you had to look really close to tell, which they were telling us tech inspectors at Lime Rock in those days.

God, I hate getting old...

Ed Huntress

It's really not so bad when you consider the options.

Kevin Gallimore

The Olds 350 diesel is the way to go. They're dirt cheap in the bone yards. It will drop right in with a change of motor mounts. The DX block can be bored 1/8" without the need for sonic checking. About the same weight as any other small block. Plenty of parts and information availability (there are web sites devoted just to these engines). It takes all the gas engine parts if you ever decided to switch to gas. It can handle over 2000 horsepower if you ever decided to switch to nitromethane :)

Dante

Yep, you can kick yourself in the butt for a dry radiator! I check all of the fluids when buying a used car as you never know what the car has had done to it. Especially something like the brake fluid as this is a big safety item. After starting the engine, the next thing I do is put my foot firmly on the brake pedal and run the engine against it to verify that the brakes will hold, followed by a low speed test of the brakes to verify that they are all working well. Then follows a check on the radiator to verify that there isn't a blown head gasket that will make travelling more difficult. Also check to verify that there isn't water in the oil afterwords.

-- Bob May Losing weight is easy! If you ever want to lose weight, eat and drink less. Works evevery time it is tried!

Well, if you *Really* want to-

Ernie Leimkuhler ( snipped-for-privacy@stagesmith.com) wrote: : Yeah I know I should post this over in some car group, but I know you : guys better.

: So anyway, I just helped my friend buy a car. : It is a 77' Pontiac Bonneville Brougham, 4 door, 301 cu.Inch engine, : power everything. : Black exterior, with the most hideous beige/tan/gold/black striped : upholstery I have ever seen. : Looks like a liesure suite from the Sopranos. : My friend loves it.

: We got it for $550 from a local guy off of eBay.

: We went up on Friday and checked it out, drove it around a bit and put : a $30 deposit down since we were getting paid today for a contract job.

: Went up today and paid the remainder, took possesion of the car and : went to drive home.

: The car got about 15 miles before it died, luckily at an off ramp next : to a gas station. : It seems the radiator was empty, so I figure the thermostat or water : pump were toast, and since we hadn't driven it that far before it : didn't show. : After the engine had cooled down and we refilled the radiator, we : couldn't get it restarted. : I don't think we blew the headgasket, and the engine still cranks, it : just won't start.

: I am a bit pissed that the bozo selling the car bothered to wash it and : top off the oil, but never filled the radiator, but I feel like it was : also my fault for not checking it myself.

: The car is in very good shape over all, and I do not feel that bad : about the whole incident yet. : I had it flatbed towed to a shop near my home so we can find out what : happened.

: So anybody have any comments on 77' Bonnevilles? : My friend wants to convert it to Diesel so he can run bio-diesel in it.

: I am wondering if anybody has a good recommendation for a diesel engine : that would fit in such a car. : I was thinking an engine from a diesel pickup truck would work, as long : as it has an automatic transmision.

: This one only has the 301 engine, but I know that it had the option for : a 455 V-8, so it can hold a BIG Block engine.

-- Howard Eisenhauer on ************************************** * * Chebucto Community Network * Can't think of anything cute * Halifax Nova Scotia * to put in here * * * snipped-for-privacy@chebucto.ns.ca **************************************

In 1980, the Trans-Am had a turbocharged 301 as an option. On certain days, when the atmosphere was just right, the carbs would align with the gods, and nothing could catch us. That engine survived through a lot of abuse at full boost without blowing up.

D.

Roy wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

And what's the latest piece of GM crap (oh sorry), the first generation 6.9s diesel that are still out there. The timeline on those is hovering around 125,000 miles. Then you throw them away, because one of the center block webs is cracked. (pardon the rant).

The 70's were a bad decade for GM automobiles. If the car is in good shape just fix the motor and drive it as is.

I think bio diesel is a scam. If you buy it from a commercial outlet it is very pricy, if you try and make it yourself you must consider the time and fuel it takes to collect the veggie oil, and the energy it takes to process it.

If you want a good diesel car on the cheap consider an older Mercedes. I picked up an 83 300 SD (3 litre 5cyl turbo) for $1,250.

-- Roger Shoaf If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.

There was no water in the oil, or anything other than steam coming from the engine. We never got any coolant fog coming from the exhaust so I don't thing we blew the headgasket.

The engine still cranked over, but wouldn't start. We will have the verdict from the auto shop tomorrow as to what is going on with it.

I really like the sound of these 350 Oldsmobile DX diesels, if we can find one in good shape.

Thanks for the link. Lots of stuff to think about

Where are you located? I've got a 350 olds diesel in an old station wagon here. The guy who had it before left the air cleaner off it for too long in his shop (I think his kid was working on it) and mice stated using the intake manifold like a hotel. You would want to rebuild it, but it's a core with all the acessories on it. I'm in Iowa, Sioux City area.

I am just south of Seattle. A bit of a drive.

The OLDS diesel is the BIGGEST POS, bar none! owning one is somewhat akin to getting leporsy.