Oxy welding Alu

I am sure this has been covered before but when I did a search I got nothing. I was sitting watching a miller dynasty 200DX go on ebay for $2800 thinking that was my last chance to get a TIG welder that could do aluminum and run off 120V when I remembered that someone told me at school that you could gas weld aluminum.

Anyone know of good sources (books and whatnot) that describe this process? I have heard that you want a special blue lens because the flux you need to use creates a hot yellow sodium flame that you can't easily see through.

Thanks for the help,

Milo

Reply to
Milo Train
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Milo. Indeed, the world has nearly forgotten that you can gas weld aluminum. A guy who has helped the world remember and has built a business in the process, is known as "the tinman". The last time I looked he had a web site. He sells improved goggles of his own design (they're pricey) plus fluxes and other products. Going from memory, his web site is

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or perhaps
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Many people prefer the "henrob" (aka "dillon") torch for this. But any torch will do. The tinman also sells torches. During world war II many aluminum framed aircraft were built with gas welding... or so I'm told.

V
Reply to
Vernon

It's

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Bob

Reply to
Bob

I once had a fellow explain how they "sooted" the weld area and began welding once the soot disappeared. He was in WWII production and a pretty handy welder so I tried it.

Looked awful, had to work the filler hard to break the oxides, the filler stuck several times and I had melt through, never tried again.

I have used the low temp stuff the radiator guys use but it would only be good for sealing cracks.

Matt

Reply to
matthew maguire

During my apprenticeship I was taught to weld aluminum sufficiently well to pass the FAA test. It was a long time ago but I still remember the boss welder showing us how it was done -- normal torch, normal goggles, something like 40 years of practice. Looked pretty easy, to watch him do it.

Cheers,

Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Reply to
Bruce In Bangkok

As for the fumes, there is the issue of breathing around them which may or may not be more important than seeing through them. There is a book I believe it is called the oxy acetylene handbook. It has been around for quite a while Oxweld, union carbide, linde and now Esab I bet you can get a new copy from your local welding shop if you order it of find a used one it will have a section on aluminum welding. It has a bunch of metallurgy related stuff in it and if you get an older version some unexpected chapters like how to use oxygen to remove carbon from inside your car engine as the oils have much better additives now.

Electric arc is like 10,000 degrees hot while oxy acetylene is like 6000 so what happens it takes a while to get up to temp then the welding itself zips along at a fast speed. An electric arc, argon shielding gas and an amperage control device will be able to weld different sized stuff together much better. An oops with gas is generally much larger.

Gas welding aluminum you clean up after and tig you clean up first either way if you don't clean enough problems arise. An awful lot of welding equipment manufacturers have shrunk the number of sizes of tips they offer, with aluminum welding you probably would want closely spaced sizes of tips as you don't want the gasses coming out too hard.

The way I read those 110 volt arc welders you are supposed to use a 20 amp plug which isn't the standard thing in outlets anywhere I go. So if you have to run a thicker wire and get a different plug/outlet why not just run a 220 line?

Fran

Reply to
fran...123

And yet my entire shop is wired for 20 amps. Oh, wait I wired it. LOL. I even have 20 amps on ground fault breakers to the outside.

Yeah, residential is mostly wired with 15 amp circuits, but the worst you will do running a 20 amp welder on one is trip a breaker. In my old house I used my little cheap flux core wire feed off a 15 amp circuit in the garage all the time. I only tripped a breaker a couple times, Otherwise it worked just fine.

Reply to
Bob La Londe

Finally someone with the same experience as me regarding gas welding aluminium and using a standard torch and filters. I was shown how to do it by an instructor that was not a welder and in about 5 minutes was better than he was, I had gas welded steel many times before having taught myself OA welding on steel. I have welded sheet aluminium many times and just used my standard gas welding goggles and never noticed any glare I was aware of, just a clear view of the weld pool and water clear molten flux. One thing I noted about gas welding aluminium is that there is a subtle change in the surface when it gets upto about the right heat and you need to start welding or the usual puddle on the floor problem occurs which most people seem to get when they start. Difficult to describe but worth looking for as once seen it worked for me as a good telltale of the metal condition.

Reply to
David Billington

That's Kent White, possibly the best automotive body man alive. He was in charge of the metal dept. at the Harrah Collection when Harah died. He has competition, But since I have worked with Kent and know him to be an honest and decent guy he has my business.

Since i have a TIG I am reluctant to learn gas welding Aluminum on projetcs that matter, but have aquired a Henrob and may do so later this winter. The thing with the goggles is trying to see thru the sodium flare and protect your eyes from UV, Kent's site has a lot to say about it, but many still use the old cobalt lenses used by glass blowers.

Reply to
Stupendous Man

I ammeal aluminum sheet fairly often, and prefer a "magic marker" to soot. heat until it disappears, and no more, then you can quench or air cool.

Reply to
Stupendous Man

Thanks everyone for your help. I grabbed a Victor Medium Duty "Kit" today. The torch is pretty light, all seems well, I might get the maco torch from "tinman" if it makes sense later.

One question though, I hooked up the regs and am getting a chirp and pretty loud high pitched whistle from the OXY reg. Here is the setup

Oxy Bottle, open all the way with a crack back. Regulator seated properly (I set it up twice to make sure) Did a leak down test and had no problems (although the regulator pressure climbed slowly from 20psi to 30psi)

I setup the rig to cut, set the OXY reg to 25 and when I open the torch oxy valve to purge the system the reg starts chirping and whistling. If I open the torch all the way up the chirping stops and the whistling continues. Do I have a bad reg? I'll take it into the shop on Monday, but I just wanted to check with you guys first.

Thanks,

Milo

Reply to
Milo Train

I'd strongly advise you to disconnect that reg and return it . I have one that would not come up smoothly , luckily I noticed the pressure climbing before anything disastrous happened . When it failed , the pressure went high enough to ruin the outlet side guage . Don't take a chance !

Reply to
Terry Coombs

Hey Milo, I was taught never to open the bottles more than a crack, especially the oxy one. It's high pressure and doesn't need it. If you have a problem, it's much easier to turn off a cracked valve than a wide open one.

I'm getting older and I'm not sure what they said to do with the gas bottles? The oxy one is the most important, no oxygen, no fire.

Bob Noble

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Original Message ----- From: "Milo Train" Newsgroups: sci.engr.joining.welding Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 15:30 Subject: Re: Oxy welding Alu

Reply to
Bob Noble

Incorrect.

You will be losing oxygen this way.

No gas, no fire either.

i

Reply to
Ignoramus21708

Turns out that the regulator was bad, but it only presented this hum and whistle in the following conditions.

  1. The regulator had to be flowing more than 20psi
  2. The torch and hose had to be attached
  3. The torch had to be providing a restricted flow (not open full)
  4. It only occurred on small bottles, large bottles had no problem (still have no idea why this was the case)

The shop gave me a new regulator and a new Oxy bottle. Thanks for the help guys, after going back and forth to the shop a couple of times I thought I was loosing my mind.

Reply to
Milo

As others have said, visit

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I regard his TM2000 lenses, filters, goggles, whatever as essential to torch-welding aluminum. They're a bit pricey, worth every bit of it if you really want to torch-weld ally. They *completely* block sodium flare (from flux) so you can see the puddle, and you absolutely must be able to see the puddle to weld aluminum successfully. The appearance of ally changes a bit just before it all falls on the floor. It looks "wet". You can't see this if you're blinded by flare. I also recommend his flux though there are other good ones too. Good flux is critical to success in gas-welding aluminum.

A couple of other posters have mentioned the Henrob torch. I've not used one so I won't comment. It reportedly has a "soft" flame particularly well-suited to aluminum welding. Kent seems to prefer the Meco Midget. I have one of those and I flat love it.

Learning to gas weld ally takes a lot of practice. It's my preferred approach for ally of .060" and less, though I do have TIG. The welds are considerably more ductile than TIG or MIG welds. But it definitely does take some practice. You have to want to learn this skill to accquire it. It is not at all difficult once learned, it just takes practice.

Bright side: it takes less practice than learning to play a banjo. I can't play a banjo but I can gas weld ally just fine.

I think Guy Lautard made a video about gas-welding aluminum. Ah:

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might also be available from Kent the Tinman.

Good luck, have fun!

Reply to
Don Foreman

It took me 3 yrs to learn to play the banjo well enough that the dogs didnt run and hide when I picked up a banjo. Course..they cant hear very well anymore....

"First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost

Reply to
Gunner Asch

Three finger or claw-hammer? Cheers,

Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Reply to
Bruce In Bangkok

I play with three fingers ever since I smashed the other two with the claw hammer. V

Reply to
Vernon

Three finger. Im not much of a strummer..I wanted to learn finger picking. And claw hammer was hard on my fingernails

"First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost

Reply to
Gunner Asch

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