What work gloves do you use for heavy infestation of poison oak & ivy (covered in urushiol)?

On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 20:32:26 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:


Hi Doug,
I'm in the chaparral country, nowhere near the lush forests.
But let me advise you of something important ... there are only two kinds of people with respect to poison oak/ivy: - Those who have been sensitized (and therefore who get the rash) ... - And ... those you have yet to be sensitized (but are never immune)!
The bad news (for you) is that you are never immune to cell mediated immunities such as that which urushiol causes - you just haven't been hit with enough oil for your particular immune system to react (lucky you!).
Putting it another way, you just have a "lousy" immune system (luckily for you), which doesn't react to the doses you have encountered so far in your life. But, trust me (look it up if you don't believe me), you WILL get poison oak eventually if you're exposed to the urushiol enough.
Nobody is "immune"; some just haven't gotten a good enough dose to make their immune system react ... and once it reacts ... it never forgets.
Note: If you're on immunosuppressants, then you might not react even after having been sensitized.
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Wrong. Some people simply don't react to it (or don't react much). I'm in that category.

That's exactly my point. I'm one of the lucky ones whose immune system won't react unless it gets an almost impossibly high exposure.

The point is that for some people, including me, "enough" is a very, very large amount, much more than it's possible to get.
I once spent an entire day tearing the stuff out of a fenceline, barehanded. By early afternoon, it had gotten hot enough that I stripped off my shirt. I took no precautions whatever -- I'd been exposed to it enough as a teenager, and not reacted, that I had no reason to worry. Shoving the stuff into trashbags, I had my arms in it up to the shoulders. I was wearing cutoff jeans, too, BTW, so no protection below mid-thigh, or above the waist.
That's a hell of a dose.
Four days later, I had one dime-sized spot of rash on my chest, and another on one forearm -- and that was it.
Years later, as I was changing the brakes on our car at the edge of the driveway (again wearing cutoffs) my wife walked up and asked me if I knew I was sitting in poison ivy. Looked down -- huh. So I am. Oh, well. She was surprised I didn't move -- told her I've been sitting on that plant for half an hour already, so it's too late to make a difference.
No reaction.
I'm 52 years old. The episode with the fenceline is the *only* time in my life I've ever had *any* reaction to it.

That simply isn't true.

Neither is that.
My own experience shows that; I *did* react to it, though very, very mildly, after the day on the fenceline, and, although I *know* I've been in contact with it since (the brake job, for example, and just last year pulling weeds) I have never reacted to it again, at all, ever.

No immunosuppressants here.
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On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 23:17:24 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:

Hi Doug,
I'm glad you don't get a serious reaction to poison oak. You're one of the lucky ones.
I did base my statements on research, e.g., see this which said almost exactly what I said: http://www.knoledge.org/oak / "There are only two kinds of people: Those who get Poison Oak, and those who are going to get it."
However, I did read what you wrote which is that you get it very slightly and that you've been heavily exposed many times. (BTW, if you've seen the black marks all over your clothes, as if someone attacked you with a black marker, then you've been heavily exposed, in my opinion.)
Anyway, as I said, I'm very glad you are only slightly reactive to poison oak urushiol. I hope, as you said, that it's a nearly permanent immunity as almost all articles say the apparent immunity changes over time:
http://www.mdvaden.com/poison_oak.shtml "Everybody including the "immune" should be cautious, because "immunity" to poison oak may change. The term "immune" is a bit figurative, because it's the immune system that generates the minor and severe rashes from poison oak."
But, in the end, you probably don't have a whole lot of special effort T-cells for the poison oak allergen. Lucky for you! http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0802.htm#natural
Unfortunatly for me, and many others, I get it 100% of the time that cut and visibly oozing poison oak stems come in contact with my skin. My clothes are covered in black marks (see the pictures I originally posted of my gloves, for example, which were only used a few times before they were covered in black marks).
http://img696.yfrog.com/gal.php?gE906740.jpg
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Clothes, hell. I've had them on my skin.

Yeah, me too. :-)

Yep! :-)

My younger son, and my sister-in-law, would have both required hospitalization if they had done what I did. My older son probably would have had much the same response that I did -- essentially none.
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There are hand creams on the market that you can apply in advance, and wash off afterward. Mechanics use this type of thing to make hand washing easier at the end of the day. I understand fire fighters also use this stuff when they have to go into a burning area with poison oak.
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On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 19:20:17 -0700, Leo Lichtman wrote:

The use of hand cremes on the knees and ankles might prevent Toxicodendron dermatitis in those unexpected spots.
I sometimes find when the urushiol is so thick, it leaves black oxidized marks on my ankles after a few hours tromping around as noted here: http://www.drreddy.com/poisonivy.html
Then, the Rhus Dermititis rash is almost certain to occur.
If I had put a hand creme all over my body, especially my knees and ankles, maybe it would have prevented these unexpected infections.
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"Elmo" wrote: (clp) If I had put a hand creme all over my body, especially my knees and ankles,

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Putting it all over the body seems a bit extreme, but--whatever it takes. Realize, of course, that you are comparing a whole body treatment to the wearing of gloves. I would try using the cream on hands, forearms and other areas where you have experienced the problem, and rely on some kind of coveralls for full body protection.
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On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 11:44:13 -0700, Leo Lichtman wrote:

I didn't mention it but I subscribe to the multi-layer approach with respect to the whole body.
So I wear long pants and a long-sleeved shirt under my mechanics overalls (coveralls?). And I wear nitrile gloves under the goatskin gauntlet style mig/tig welding gloves.
Still, I'm so covered in the urushiol catechols that my wrists have visible phenolic black marks from scrapes with the oxidized and polymerized urushiol, especially when it's wet or when I sweat a lot.
So, the hand creme might be a good third layer on my wrists.
About the only part of my body exposed to the elements is my face, neck, and ears ... but for some reason, they don't seem to get the rash as much as my wrists, between my fingers, and on my ankles and toes.
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On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:11:31 +0000 (UTC), Elmo

Don't forget your suit of armor and chain mail hauberk and coif.
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What's that Lassie? You say that Which Doktor fell down the old sci.engr.joining.welding mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue by Sat, 10 Apr 2010 16:24:12 -0400:

Codpiece! Don't forget the codpiece!
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.
  Click to see the full signature.
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On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 01:20:01 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:

Based on what it says in this web site, you and your older son probably react onlty to three or more degrees of saturation on the carbon chain hanging off the urushiol catechol while your son and sinister in law likely react to the unsaturated chain or one or two degrees of saturation:
See http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Urushiol "The allergic reaction is dependent on the degree of unsaturation of the alkyl chain. Less than half of the general population reacts with the saturated urushiol alone, but over 90% react with urushiol containing at least two degrees of unsaturation (double bonds)."
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On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 01:20:01 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:

For your sake though, you should not tramp through the poison oak with impugnity.
Notice Wayne himself, in Waynesworld, says he used to be immune ... until ... http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0802.htm "Caution: Cutting and sanding poison oak wood is extremely unwise and hazardous--even if you think you are immune to its dermatitis. This is how one of the authors (WPA) was rudely initiated into the ranks of poison oak sufferers, after tramping through it for decades with impunity."
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On Apr 9, 2:30pm, Elmo <dcdraftwo...@Use-Author-Supplied- Address.invalid> wrote:

WHATEVER YOU DO DONT BURN IT. THE SMOKE IS LETHAL.
Jimmie
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Elmo wrote:

I'd try welder's gloves (or similar) to keep from getting burned as I operated the flame-thrower. (Don't forget the ear, eye, nose, throat, and underarm protection.)
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On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 08:37:56 -0500, HeyBub wrote:

I am currently using arc welders gloves as the flame welder's gloves were way too thick to operate gas cutting equipment.
The only problem with these mig welding gloves is they don't handle repeated washings well. http://yfrog.com/jc45906740jx
I'm trying to find which is the best skin for washing: - deerskin gloves? - kangaroo skin gloves? - cowhide gloves? - pigskin gloves? - goatskin gloves?
Here is a comparison of the various skins, but not with respect to phenols: http://www.unitedglove.com/leather.htm
I really like the idea of a flame thrower ... :) But in the dry chaparral, not only would the smoke itself be dangerous (urushiol, being a hydrocarbon, can burn but being an oil, it can also form droplets in the air which can be inhaled), but the fire itself would need to be contained.
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On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 18:30:08 +0000 (UTC), Elmo wrote:

http://www.unitedglove.com/leather.htm
a) Cowhide dries stiff when it gets wet, becoming hard and losing its flexibility. b) Goatskin leather has the highest natural lanolin content, which makes a very soft and flexible glove that retains its pliability after getting wet. c) Deerskin gloves do not stiffen after getting wet repeatedly and form to the hand over time. d) High lanolin content keeps pigskin leather soft which does not dry out and crack after repeatedly getting wet.
So, it looks like, for repeated washings, you want: 1) Goatskin 2) Pigskin 3) Deerskin 4) Cowhide
In that order.
--- ---
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On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 22:34:07 -0400, Phisherman wrote:

Everyone keeps suggesting Roundup. Maybe I'm missing something basic here.
Remember, we're talking a JUNGLE of intertwined vines. How am I supposed to get Roundup a hundred yards from where I can't access, let alone five feet from the thicket I'm trying to penetrate?
What am I missing that more than one person says Roundup will do the job?
We're talking hedgerow-thick impenetrable chaparral so thick a human can't get more than a couple of feet into it before being stopped by the vines, many of which are an inch to two inches thick along with the thinner stuff as shown in the pictures previously posted.
http://img338.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=poisonoakurushiolchapar.jpg http://img696.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?idE906740.jpg
Anyone suggesting Roundup either knows something I can't possibly fathom (I certainly hope so), or, they haven't seen the pictures (which is understandable).
Maybe they know of a dissemination method that I haven't thought of, being that there's no way to disburse Roundup a hundred yards from what you can actually acess, let alone five to twenty feet from where you're standing.
Or is there???? How can Roundup possibly be disseminated thru these impenetrable thickets (see the pictures)???????????????
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 04:47:22 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:

I was thinking helicopter since the canyon sides may be too steep to get a bulldozer in there ... :)
Seriously, I do have a pressure washer, but, wouldn't it use a LOT of Roundup since it feeds from a garden hose? The garden hose is problematic since there isn't a faucet within 500 yeards of the thicket I'm trying to hack my way through. Plus, I'm not trying to clear a square area; I'm cutting a path along the bank of a small stream where the stream itself is choked with poison ivy so the first pass is the stream, the second pass is the bank.
Lately I've been using a chain saw as my "light saber", standing in the center of the stream channel, holding the chain saw high above my head and slashing down to allow myself forward movement. I only need to cut a man-sized tunnel so I don't have to get all the vines that are above 7 feet or so.
I also use the chain saw to slash the ground as there's about a foot of intertwined dead poison oak vines on the floor of the chaparral canyon on the sides of the bank - much of which scrapes against my ankles causing rashes when I am not careful enough.
Likewise, fire seems problematic because I wouldn't know how to keep it in a straight line and it's dry chaparral besides ... which, if it went up in flames, could be very dangerous.
Back to the roundup ... I guess I could slash my way through the stream channel ... and THEN I could apply roundup to the sides of the bank. But I'd still have to wait a year or so for the urushiol to "weather" out of the vines (some say it never weathers out, others say it does). And, after that year has passed, then I can clear off the dead vines.
But, that doesn't seem to be any less work than slashing my way through the vines with all the cutting tools at my disposal. Or maybe I'm missing a key point???????
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Elmo wrote:

Dumb question- why do you need access to this creek bed? Simple contrariness, and a desire to walk wherever you please on your property? Your best dog keeps getting stuck down there?
Mother nature has clearly labeled that a no-human zone. I'd be inclined to post a few signs and say the hell with it. A whole lotta work to kill it and remove it, and keep it from coming back.
--
aem sends...

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On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 12:55:37 -0400, aemeijers wrote:

Just to enjoy a meandering walk along its banks.
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