Could it be because they aren't made in oriental sweat shops?
Fox is anachronistic. At the current rate, every manufactured product you buy will come from PRC in a few years, built from reverse-engineered plans for successful American, European, and Japanese products.
Shop at Wal Mart now and you won't have to wait a few years.
Abel
check out tower hobbies web sight for new prices on fox engines they must be gold plated now makes os look cheap< what gives
Nail
Well, the Japanese and Chinese are making the products we want. When are American companies going to do the same? Price isn't the only motivator here. When you have engines available that are modern, reliable and reasonably priced, why settle for ancient designs that are overpriced and still have problems?
There is no reason for the Fox 40 to cost $131.00! There has not been any engineering work done on that engine for at least 30 years and manufacturing costs in Arkansas MUST be lower than in Los Angeles. K&B is making thier engines in LA and the 4011 is $105.00.
Only because you're buying them! Supply and demand!
If that were true, the American engine companies would still be in business. And a great many other manufacturers would still manufacture in the US.
Resonably priced? In a unionized industry? Yea! Right! Not even when in competition with cheap labor!
And even less in the PRC. Just like Japan and OS did to European and US model engine manufacturers in the 60's through the 90's (not to mention motorcycles and autos). Now it's China's turn with some input from the rest of SEA (watch for Chinese cars in ten or less years). It's the normal cycle of economies. In simple terms, one nation dominates an industry enabling their standard of living to rise. Eventually another nation gets in the position to compete with the first. This is due mainly to labor costs that result from the lower standard of living in the second nation. The first nation eventually becomes a bit player in that industry while the second one rises to the top and life is better for it's citizens. Until the next guy comes along!
If they're lucky, the labor force of the first nation re-trains or has made a similar transition into something that can support the standard of living they've grown accustom to. If not, they experience a major recession along with bank failings and a variety of other economic ills (where did the Japanese tech industry go and what has their economy done these last ten years?).
That's the simple version. For the more adventurous, consider several industries at one time. All doing the same thing and all in various stages of developement. Maybe upwards of twenty or so to begin to get a real picture. And consider in a nation the size of the US (or China or Europe) you have similar competition between regions of that nation. Gets confusing real fast but, if you can hang with it, it explains what is happening and why individual Americans have to be adaptive in their careers if they hope to survive both as individuals and as a nation. Otherewise we will end up like some here hope.
But I wouldn't expect you to understand anything about that.
Chuck
CO,
K&B are made in the USA and are producing a fairly good .40 with a tuned muffler that retails for under $85. The Mecoa line is made in the US and their mid size engines sell for well under $100. I own a couple of each and they are equal to (or better than) anything from China. I would also suspect that Dub Jett could produce a good, mid priced engine if he decided to. He has decided to go after the top end because there is less competition there and he has a product that realistically has only one other competitor.
Don't say it CAN'T be done because it IS being done. I believe that US industry chooses not to compete because it is hard.
More likely that they are still using the highly labor-intensive manufacturing processes they used 50 years ago. Maybe even the same machines!
MECOA is producing engines equal to anything coming from China. Their prices are just about the same as well. They are also producing K&B engines and the 4050 (hot 40 with a tuned muffler) is retailing for under $85.00. I have a couple MECOA engines and they run just fine. My next 40 will be the K&B.
MECOA also makes GMS engines or used to. I was down there a couple of weeks ago, however, and they had to yank back their molds from the casting place because the casting place was about to re-locate to PRC. Supposed to be a hot new K&B engine coming out soon he told me.
Abel,
Look at the price on the Sheldon's Hobby site. The manufacturer always lists a high retail price for items to protect their distributors. I was wrong about the price. It is $92 at Sheldons.
I have seen them turn an APC 9X6 at over 16K which puts them ahead of the Supertigre GS 40 and Thunder Tiger 40. This version was very popular in pylon circles a couple of decades ago when they were regularly beating Rossis. There was also one in an SWRA Gold class winner a little over 10 years ago. I also remember something about them not being allowed in CALZONA Quickie Sport racing because they were too fast.
I won't defend their HP figures just like I laugh at the OS 40LA having 1HP at 16K I don't think the LA would turn that with ANY prop installed.
Mecoa made GMS engines? As far as I know they are merely a distributor. GMS have been made in the same factory in China for decades. Same factory that makes Magnum, ASP, some of the Tower engines, and SC. I can get any of them through my Chinese contacts.
Oh we can build engines all right. I never said we couldn't. But we no longer dominate the industry! We no longer build the brands of choice! Even the K&B line is a shadow of itself from the 60's and 70's. And the manufacturers we do have? Don't they more closely resemble cottage industry than they do big industry? And where are Kraft and Enya to name just two?
Like I said, it's a cycle! And that is my point (which you elect to avoid). And we are neither at the top nor the bottom of it. I believe we're closer to the bottom in this particular industry and that we are considerably lower than we once were. But the real question is are we moving up or down?
Now go praise the few US engines made while you buy PRC!
Yeah, that's the rub. The engine isn't suitable for any purpose other than Q Sport, but most groups that have organized these events don't allow tuned pipes. That leaves it in a really tight niche. Similar thing for several engines in my stable, Fox Q40 and Q 40 Sport, ST Q40, Webra Hyper 40. Too hot for most sport classes, but not competitive with Jett or Nelson.
Abel
Then why compare apples with oranges? Tower is not discounting Fox one bit! You can buy the Fox from Quantum for only $79.99.
The Q-40 Sport should be OK. It uses the standard muffler. Reminds me of the time I put a nitro pipe on one and an 8.5X7.5 APC pylon prop. Turned
20k on 15%! Scared the crap outta me!
Sounds like Tower is looking for a good excuse to get rid of the line.
Good point, John...
After the US distributor for OPS engines, Bob Murphy (Shamrock Competition Imports), passed away, Great Planes/Hobbico acquired the US rights. OPS prices skyrocketed, effectively killing OPS sales in the US... My guess is it was done to protect OS sales...
At the time OPS was THE engine for pattern flyers and nitro boat racers...... The engines were built like a piece of jewelry compared to most of the stuff on the market.
I don't even see a company website for OPS engines anymore.
I wonder if they're still being produced?? I had one of their 1.20 fourstrokes w/ the overhead cam mounted inverted in a QS Pilot "Tiger Moth"...
Bill
Well, I could be wrong. Been known to happen! I had to go down there to get a replacement crankcase for my GMS .76 because Tower only carries the newer version and 70% of the parts are not interchangeable. They do make the K&B engines tho.
Competition
Tell me about it. I still have a couple 40 SPP Pylon engines. What's nice is with a Perry carb they idle pretty well for the monster they are. Bought them from Shamrock back in the mid 90's and I really miss them. I've got one mounted inverted in my Patriot. I couldn't believe a motor like this would be so flexible.
As far as Fox goes, my 40BB runs like a clock and weighs less than just about any other 40 out there. It's a perfect engine for a Magic or other light 3D plane.
I see those pretty often on e bay. I know they are still made but they only produce a very limited number of sizes. All I've seen is a 2cc and a 3.5 cc car engine in a few different flavors. Horizon still sells the 15 car engine. An Italian site for them
How do you get rid of it with those prices?
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