Every tax in the UK is about 10 times what it is in the US. You get taxed
here for just breathing Fresh air.
My gross pay is around GBP 1800 a month, I take home around 1400 a month.
I also pay about GBP 1 on every bottle of wine I buy GBP 3 on every gallon
of fuel I buy. Everything else I buy is subject to 17.5% VAT. Oh don't
forget the tax I pay on my company car.
I'm sure someone else can add to this list.
As I said, about 60% of GDP goes to the government.
About 80% of it goes to pay people who then decide what if anything, to
do with the last 20%.
I have long been an advocate of simp.ly giving it back to everyone as a
falt national income, completely regardless of anything, and letting
them spend it where they will. Of course this throws about 25-30% of te
labour force who used to work in the civil service out of work, but as
long as heroin is immediatelty legalised and made avaialable at
sufficiently low prices, they can sit at home and watch reality TV
stoned out of their minds, thus allowing the scarce resources of the
country to be better utilised for those who actually contribute something.
With habits easily fed at minimal cost, street crime will be far lower.
With most people at home, traffic congestion and parking will be hugely
eased. Not to mention an instant improvement in oil consumption and
Sadly it will never happen: The international criminal drig trafficking
organsiations feed far too much cash into 'anti-drug' lobbies... to keep
them illegal, and the 30% of people who are employed by the government
are hardly likely to vote themselves out of work either...
It's difficult at best to try to compare tax rates between the US and
Europe. The main reason being that different benefits are obtained through
those taxes. Last I knew, Germany collected for the recognized churches
through a tax (and if you didn't claim a religion, your cash went to the
government). England has socialized medicine which is paid for through
taxes (didn't say it was good, just that they have it). Most European
countries have excellent mass transit which is no doubt subsidized through
taxes. And I believe all of them have some form of welfare and state
sponsored retirements. All from taxes! And the list goes on! Sure there's
bloating, corruption, excess and the like in all the systems.
But the bottom line is, you have to look at your system and decide if you're
getting your moneys worth. Then you have to look at others and decide if
you want to pay twice something else is really worth in order to have your
government provide and manage it for you. I'll stick with the US. At the
very least, I understand it best of all the systems out there.
C O Jones makes some good points .....
Yes in the UK you can qualify for a state retirement pension if
you pay your National Insurance for long enough - but is is a
fairly miserable sum - something like £100 per week max I think.
And then you have to pay from that the Local Council Tax - which
in my case is £34 per week !
And on Healthcare the UK National Health Service is riddled with
delay and inefficiency - two years ago my Mother nearly had to
queue to get into a Hospice ward for what turned out to be her
last 10 days of life ........ they even gave me the bottles of
morphine to treat her in case she could not get into the Hospice.
And our public transport system in the UK is pretty much now
needing complete renewal - delays are endemic. And our roads are
very congested and full of potholes. And all the time our
politicans are telling us how well we are doing, and our dear
Chancellor keeps introducing yet another steath tax on some item
or other that he hopes we will not notice.
It is difficult to see how things have 'improved' at all for at
least the last five years in the UK
On Wed, 5 May 2004 17:36:27 -0400, "C.O.Jones"
Many in the U.K have private/company pension schemes which substantially
increase the amount of pension you get in conjunction with the State
Retirement Pension. I was fortunate to be in a good company scheme
which we paid a substantial slice of our pay packet into in order to
You are obviously not aware that the Hospice Movement (for terminal
cancer patients) is *not* part of the Health Service, it is in fact run
on voluntary contributions by the people in the vicinity of each
hospice. The Hospice Movement provides superb care and accomodation and
can't even get funding from the National Lottery. Every single
establishment is funded by those in the local communities who appreciate
the excellent service. The standard of care is soooooo superb that there
can only be a limited number of beds in any one area... it is virtually
one to one care from the dedicated staff. It is funded by the community
and there is no charge for anyone requiring that level of care.
Having been the recipient of U.S medical care some years ago I can
honestly say that you don't appreciate how good our system is. There are
delays but a lot of that is caused by improvements in medicine causing
people to live longer... hence more people in the system who would
otherwise have died from things which are now treatable.
Welcome to the legacy of the Thatcher government... remember how they
sold off all the family silver ? Privatising everything was going to
make a vast improvement... they overlooked the greed, incompetence and
racketeering of big business.... or did they ? many politicians sit on
various company boards as soon as they retire from politics !!!
Despite all the funding this country has received from being a member of
the E.U. ? Where I live has improved enormously as a result of
employing E.U funding to improve the environment and job opportunities.
I have recently been for some chest Xrays, waiting time 10 minutes on
one visit ( no appointment) and 5 minutes on the next visit (with
appointment), mind you I do have the sense not to live within a few
hundred miles of the south east of England >:-)
Perhaps you need to remove your blindfold and have a good look around
And now we have endless bureacracy and huge numbers of managers
overseeing everything, and hopeless inefficiency and delay.
Let them make profits. Its less costly than making prtetend work for
people in the long run.
Very few organisations HAVE to be state run. Arguably the railway
(tracks) and maybe the phones. And power distribution possibly.
But OI'd privatise schools and healthcare instantly if I could. Just
FUND it centrally, and let the hospitals and schools compete for the
My son broke his wrist playing basketball at 1200 on a saturday. We went to
the local NHS Trust hospital for treatment. He finally had the fracture set
and a cast put on around noon the next day.
In the US, we would have gone to the local community hospital and had the
full treatment in around two hours. That's what happened to my wife.
Having lived and suffered under both systems, I'll take the US one any day.
I broke a bone in my foot as a result of a shipboard accident when
heading to Los Angeles. Doctor in L.A couldn't even diagnose it from the
X-ray... his nurse had to call him back from telling me it was badly
bruised and I could overhear her telling him it was actually broken.
Next port of call San Francisco.... taxied ashore again to next doctor.
Real plush place, I sank up to my eyelids in the carpet. He had a
portable radio playing on his desk which he was listening to while
talking to patients !!! His contribution??? He asked me which metatarsal
bone was fractured.... had I seen the X-rays myself?... am I the doctor?
What the hell is he asking me for ??? All I know is I have a foot twice
its normal size and all the colours of the rainbow. According to the
first guy (well his nurse ) I have a broken bone.... period !
Next call was Seatle... his input? Drink plenty of milk !!!
Last call was Vancouver... heavens be praised an English doctor who had
recently gone to live there.... finally sense at last, this guy actually
knew what he was doing and talking about.
All the American doctors had plush places, attached pharmacies there own
X-ray equipment and all. Pity they were bloody useless. Granted there
may be some good ones over there.....
Why didn't you go to a different doctor right away? In the LA area there
are probably 100,000 doctors available as well as the USC and UCLA medical
centers as well as Mount Sinai. Three of the best in the world.
This strike is on you for leaving the first place.
Same response. What are you doing leaving ports with a broken, swollen
foot? Not enough sense to get it fixed?
After the shoddy treatment I received here, I'll take the US system any day.
Costs less and is far superior. We don't have to ship off our patients to
another country for treatment!
The shipping company I worked for, via its American agents, arranged the
doctors and all the necessary paperwork plus all transport.
Er, pardon ? The ship I was based on was moving from port to port !
I also hadn't experienced anything which would give me a great desire to
stay for further lacklustre treatment.
See previous answer and take into account I was relying on doctors to
determine the treatment.... in USA I would have done better trying to
sort myself with a box of bandaids.
How the heck does it cost less, our National Insurance Contributions are
as nothing compared to one bill for a decent operation in US.
You don't ship patients sure... but thats only 'cos they don't survive
long enough to be shipped anywhere...
Ahh, the company doctor! Probably the best they could get for $2.00.
My medical insurance costs FAR less then what the NHS costs everyone. I
thought I heard from some NHS spokesman on Sky news say that the NHS costs
something like 6000 quid for each patient average. My medical insurance
costs me about $200 a month and is good worldwide. And, with your country
letting in just about everyone who can hitch a ride across the channel, it
is bound to get a lot worse.
I guess we can agree that our individual experiences are very different.
Don't think they were company doctors... sure worth about $2, well
$1.10 anyway. Their premises indicated a lifestyle based on more than $2
With an increasing number of elderly people and a decreasing number of
younger people they are going to need them to maintain the workforce,
and thus pay into our wonderful health system.
Do you get free treatment when you reach retirement age, I have never
seen this mentioned anywhere so just curious ? Here at the age of 60
both men and women get free medicines and eye tests as well as medical
I have, both. Took a year to get some hernias patched. Still rips up and
Father in law went in for internal endoscope examination, and nearly
died when they nicked a bit of his bladder, sent him home and he got a
raging bacterial infection.
A LOT depends where you live.
On numerous occasions my
Lucky him/her. Sometimes its t'other way about.
Indeed. I agree. I wish all those northeern batsdards would bugger off
back to oop north where they came from so we could have the south back
And take coronation street with them. Bloody eck, I listened (not
watched) an episode for teh first time ever whilst building a model the
other month. Talk about role models. Makes Trisha look like some kind of
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