By and large, I don't either. However, with model aircraft representation, there just aren't enough of us to make competition viable. As has been mentioned elsewhere, most of us are well over forty, with most of us over fifty, with few youngsters joing our ranks. I feel that we just can't afford internecine warfare given the conditions that now exist. Working to reform AMA instead of fracturing it seems to me to be the better course.
No argument there! That's where internal reform comes in.
They're far better at finding thermals than I am. If I see a vulture circling, and I can get over there, it suggests that this flight might last more than two minutes!
Don't jump to the racial issue so quick. The good ol' boys in the clubs don't like anyone! Regardless of race.
Not to say the race issue isn't out there somewhere. I just think the treatment you've received is sue ore to the stupid old man syndrome that anything racial.
I apologize, relating circling vultures to C. O. J. is a terrible disservice to the vultures. :-0
Our field is adjacent to a now closed land fill, but when it was still open a large population of sea gulls were always present to point out the thermals. Still have a fair amount of help from red tail hawks, buzzards of some type and our resident bald eagle. They just don't seem to mind at all sharing the air with models, gas or electric, powered or unpowered.
Working within the AMA would indeed be the best way to go. However, there does seem to be an unusually large number of vociferous AMA pundits whose basic philosophy is "my way or the hi-way". And they do their best to discourage, ridicule and otherwise push out anyone who dares think outside their shoe box. Who has different ideas or perhaps push the envelope a bit beyond the pundits ability to understand. In short, they don't believe they can learn anything new except maybe from each other.
And those with the ideas discover they have better things to do than to get in cat fights with the pundits. So they leave in one form or another. Some remain AMA members while others go it alone. The dreaded renegades! Outlaws! And others still drop the hobby all together. And what kind of word of mouth do you think goes out from these folks?
Good points, Chuck! But if all the people who didn't vote for Brown during the last election had voted for just one other candidate, I think he still would have won - but just barely. I don't remember the count, so correct me if I'm wrong. Somehow, word's gotta be gotten out to ALL members just how important educated and informed voting is. Besides Tony Stillman at RCR, who has a column in a popular magazine other than MA who's willing to make enough noise to get noticed?
What have you proposed to the AMA, when and to whom, that would "fix" the perceived problems?
With all the flying buddies you have, what have you collectively done to strengthen the organization?
How have you tried to work within the AMA? What positive actions have you taken? A few details please. Times change, maybe they can pick up on your ideas for transforming the AMA into what you feel it should be. Old men standing in the way of progress will soon die. It is time to show the youngsters what you are made of to warrant their support to bring the AMA out of darkness into the light.
You claim to have a fair following of disgruntled modelers, yet you keep the location where you congregate and fly a secret. This is really strange for someone claiming to have a goal of bringing modeling back to the modeler. People of like interests can't even contact you except thought this medium.
One wanting to lead the AMA out of darkness certainly will have a modeling resume to give some credibility to his ability to render such a needed service to the modeling public. How about a little insight into the man that wants to carry the torch of modeling freedom?
Push the door open Chuck, don't just keep throwing rocks at it from hiding. Maybe under your leadership and direction you can muster more than 16% of the AMA members to vote and make the necessary changes.
I have given it a great deal of thought. Why, with such a burning passion to improve the modelers lot, would one want to do it incognito?
You simply are not going to change the AMA with only 16% of the modelers voting. A 57% win in today's environment of voter apathy and ignorance is normally considered a land slide. This has created nearly an impentatrable shield over the orgainzation that people on this forum can urinate all over and it will go unnoticed. It will have the same impact as the words etched in yellow in last winters snow bank
2004 results President: Dave Brown 15,090 57.9% Dave Mathewson 7,925 Bill Oberdieck 3,066 Total 26,081 (That is just 16% of the membership voting)
Besides
Don Lowe (past AMA President) has been a regular columnist in RC Modeler. Frank Tiano, probably one of the most significant organizers in the hobby, had a column in RCR for a long time. These are off the top of my head, I'm sure if it is researched you will find a number of others.
Gosh, Red, you're an ornithologist too!?!? As a matter of fact, a vulture's primary means of self-defence is puking on its attacker! EWWWWWWWWW!!!!! ;-)
Playing your words game again Red? Sorry, I'm not biting. What I may or may not have proposed is really none of your business. And I never claimed to be able to "fix" any problems. Just to have some ideas that may help. But I'm one of those dreaded renegades now and enjoying it more than when I was AMA. So maybe you should go ask DB! Assuming of course he even bothers to respond to you.
Quote: "What I may or may not have proposed is really none of your business."
And then you don't want to know past history, but ask for tomorrow. OK, I'll tell you. I'll keep doing my Battery Clinic column hopefully to make Model Aviation a better magazine, I'll keep paying my dues, I'll support the AMA on a local a basis explaining why its a good idea to join, support and give guidance for new modelers that join. I'll support other clubs at their sanctioned events. I'll continue to serve as safety coordinator for District V. I'll continue as moderator of the AMA District V e-mail list. I'll hang in as moderator at RCU and WattFlyer battery/charger forums. Last and probably least, I'll keep exposing you for what you are even though just about everyone must have you figured by now.
YOUR TURN! We realize it is hard to say much about NOTHING but give it a shot anyway. It's never seemed to stand in your way before. We'll even settle for what you have done in the past for model aviation, not necessarily for the AMA - that should give you a little more room to squirm and slither.
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 14:57:53 -0400, "Chuck Jones" wrote:
"Where's your proof!"
Do those words sound familiar, Kevie? You told the world what *you* did yesterday for AMA, or rather that you did 'something' in in a manner that is utterly unverifiable. I don't recall your ever saying what you intend to do for the AMA tomorrow, but here is a good opportunity for you to do so. Red opened the door, this thread, for you to show that you are something other than the bush league sociopath you appear to be, as a small-screen persona we don't know otherwise. Why don't you take the opportunity to set us straight? I gave you an opening a few days ago show that you know some facts behind your AMA bashing, and it apparently whizzed right over your head. You said AMA didn't pay claims,even after discussion of a specific instance where they did after their obligation to do so was determined (actually, I'm presuming they did - do you know differently?). I left that discussion with a challenge to you to cite a case where AMA left their insured holding the bag for damages after he was found liable for the damage his model caused. I can cite such a case, and I know there are many others here that have at least a passing familiarity with it. Certainly you of all people must know of at least one such case chapter and verse. Prove that you can be worthy at something, even if your best shot is your hate campaign against AMA. This thread is your stage, and for once nobody is going to get annoyed at you for being disruptive of discussions they are interested in having with other modelers. So go for it - I'm listening, I know Red is too and probably several others are curious about what makes you tick, though I can't speak for anyone but myself.
I'm listening. I'd like to hear about this case. Our research on AMA's own website (not just the summary) has shown that their contract allows them to basically pay claims at their discretion, which esentially is not insurance and is probably not even legal in some states. I have also learned that insurance companies are obliged by law to report claims, profits, etc, etc, so all of this info is available if you know how to find it. But I would like to hear another modeler's story about an instance where liability was assigned and they did not pay. It was apparent in the other thread that most of us do not know about such instances. If you're willing to tell about the one you know about, I'd like to hear it.
In due time, Robbie. This is Kevie's (CO's, Chuckie's, etc.) thread, so let's give him his opportunity to cite it and give us the benefit of his knowledge of such things in his analysis of whether or not justice was done, and in particular whether AMA's actions were in accord with generally accepted (or for that matter, your own personal) ethical standards or not. I expect he will present the 'or not' position, but he might surprise us.
No need for back channel, I'm not hiding. Reach me at abel snipped-for-privacy@ohiostate1.com. There is an underline symbol between first and last names.
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