OS .40 Max FP Adjustment

I have the same engine on an Eagle 2 trainer I just bought to have an extra plane. The large screw with the indents is the needle valve and adjusts like a regular one. The othe side of the carb is the air bleed adjust. It works the opposite of a standard low speed adjust, by letting more or less air in. As to the 3rd, not sure.... Andy

We can make a box of wood.....FLY!!

For future reference download the manual for the 40LA from O.S. MAX's site and read the instructions for adjusting the carb. It has essentially the same air bleed carb as the FP did differing only in the position of its remote needle valve .

Re your FP.

LHS needle valve adjusts high end mixture. Turning it in (clockwise) leans the mixture, out richens. You adjust this with the carb barrel fully open and accept the resultant mid-range, which with O.S. carbs and air bleed carbs in particular is generally pretty good.

RHS screw is air bleed screw. It adjusts the idle mixture. It works in the opposite sense to the needle valve. ie: turning it in (clockwise) richens the mixture (closes the air hole), and of course the opposite leans. You adjust this with the carb barrel against throttle stop set with an initial visible intake gap of about 1-2mm.

Top of carb is the throttle stop screw. Screwing this in (clockwise) increases the intake oriface gap between the throttle barrel and the carb body. Like its name implies, you use this to set where the carb barrel stops rotating at the low end. In the instructions, you set a theoretical 1-2mm gap.

In practice, if you set the throttle stop there with the engine at idle and TX throttle lever fully closed which is as desired, then you won't be able to shut the engine down by retarding the throttle trim lever down from neutral to close the intake as the barrel is already physically up against the throttle stop screw.

So with modern computer radios it's common to actually set the carb barrel position where the intake is just closed off entirely or at at point where it won't sustain combustion using the throttle stop screw.

After doing this and setting up the mechanical linkage from the sevo as accurately as you can, with the TX throttle stick fully closed and TX throttle trim set to neutral, you re-set the desired barrel idle gap (1-2mm) using the Sub-Trim feature of your TX.

You then retard the TX throttle trim lever to fully close the throttle barrel, limiting servo travel to coincide with the physical throttle stop position with End Point Adjustment (Futaba) or ATV in the case of JR. This is to prevent the servo straining or jittering in trying to move the throttle arm (& barrel) beyond the point limited physically by the throttle stop screw when the trim lever is used to fully close the barrel at the termination of the flight in the pits.

Finally to bench run it in, set the throttle stop about 1-2mm open for idle and adjust from there if req. N/V initially about 2½ turns open without muffler pressure, 1½-1¾ with. The air bleed will have been factory set and you won't need to adjust idle mixture initially unless you've fiddled with it or are at 8000' AMSL. Nice engine, reliable idle, easy to tune and powerful in class.

The large one on the right of the carb (as you look at the engine from the front) is the high speed needle. Turning it in leans the hig hspeed mix.

A small screw on the upper front of the carb, with the head facing to the left (as you look at the engine from the front) is the low speed air bleed adjustment. Turning it out leans the low speed mix.

The third screw, with the head pointing up and slightly rearward, is the throttle barrel adjustment. It limits how far the carb barrel can close. For most R/C applications, it should be set so the barrel will close completely. If you turn it too far out, the barrel will be sloppy and may fall out. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!"

One other thing you can set for your particular application is the relationship between the throttle barrel and the throttle arm that the linkage attaches to. There is a large philips screw in the middle of the arm that can be loosened and that angluar positon of the arm can be adjusted. Just be sure to get it real tight after you set it! My Eagle2 came without a computer radio, so I adjusted the positions with the arm to get nearest to a full range of motion with the trim set to close the barrel completely. So far, even though it's old and sat around for a while, it runs fine and pulls the Eagle around fully adequately for it's intended purpose. Good luck with yours, let us all know how it works out for you. Andy

We can make a box of wood.....FLY!!

Thanks all for the info, your explanations are the exact setup of the engine!

Like a monkey in a room with a red button I have already fiddled with the low speed air bleed screw adjustment. Any suggestions on how many turns out I should set that one so I don't run it too lean?

Thanks again,

Mike

Screw it in so that looking from the front, the air hole is half blocked. This will be a safe rich setting, and it will idle. Adjust it from there once you get it running on the bench or in the model.

Start with the HS needle about 2 turns out. Open the idle air-bleed all the way. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!"

If he "opens" the air bleed (screw) all the way, it will be well and trly lean. I don't think you actually wrote what you meant to say? ;)

Actually, I did. :-)

On most air-bleed carbs, the air hole is too small to begin with. Even with the screw backed out all the way, the idle mixture will probably still be too rich. At least, that's been my experience with air-bleed carbs. On this type of carb, there is no interaction between the HS needle and the air-bleed screw.

I have recommended, and have seen recommended by engine gurus, drilling out the air-bleed hole to further lean the idle mix.

Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!"

Then you got it back to front.

Turning the air bleed screw out will lean the mixture, and backing it out all the way will ensure the FP's idle is excessively lean. Not the reference datum desirable to start with. Even our inquirer is smart enough to figure out it's best to start out rich.

It ain't on the FP, and we are talking about the FP in the particular not the elusively imaginative "most".

Sorry but it just has to be said. That is utter C R A P.

We'll put it down to your obvious unfamiliarity with the venerable

40FP or ever having actually tuned the idle on an FP carb...nor for that matter many Japanese air bleed carbs if you are suggesting Mr Enya and Mr O.S. don't have the elusive "most" of them pretty well sorted by this time? :)

Looking at my FP carb as we speak, its air bleed screw is screwed in so that insofar as I can gauge within a bee's dick, 1/3 of the air bleed hole is obstructed. It's flown many an instructing hour upon hour such that its idle can be confirmed tuned. It idles consistently, reliably and stably. Ne'r a flameout whether throttle closed during approach, spinning or prolonged idling at the holding point. The size of the hole in the FP carb is inarguably adequate, and that air bleed carb not only works, but works well for this engine. One can only recommend a datum starting point of setting the screw ½ way in (or out depending upon your preferred frame of refference) as originally suggested and working from the known rich setting there.

As for generalised statements about air bleed carbs. My empirical experience doesn't support your hypothesis. The air bleed idle type carb fitted default to my AAC Enya CX45, which is itself no slouch of an engine, is the equal and perhaps arguably superior in terms of low speed idle stability and transition to the mixture screw type idle carbs on my various O.S. engines of similar class. eg: .46FX & 46SF. Though I couldn't in honesty actually denigrate their idle mixture screw carb idle and transition performance either. We'll talk about Super Tigre MAGs another time. FWIW, that Enya CX 45 is my absolute favourite sport engine of the Schnuerled tapered piston TBRs in that .45-.47 capacity class...no mean feat when you look at what it's up against.

Transition isn't an issue on well designed and manufactured air bleed carbs set up either by those with ½ a clue or someone who can follow a simple set of written instructions from the OE manufacturer. A shitty carb, air bleed or otherwise is a shitty carb. But the FP's doesn't fall within this category IME.

Simply unnecessary with the FP carb.

re: iguana's post:

amazing how actual experience is so much more valuable than "what i heard". in years spent tinkering with these engines, i also found that putting the screw in the middle was the best place to start. at least then you have some place to go, in or out, and certainly among "the proven" engines, the fp was among them.

OK, you wanna get personal? Tell me I don't know what I'm talking about? HA! You talk a lot, use big words, and say little. I repeat, it's been my PERSONAL experience with air-bleed carbs. No hypothesis on my part. I don't pull this stuff outta my butt. Anything I say, I've either witnessed or done.

You got lucky with your FP. I stand by what I said. Let the original poster try it my way. If it doesn't work, then I'm wrong. If it does... Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!"

Well written, the experience of many.

As a standard work shop setting at sea level, I use a glass head pin which is just under 1/16 inch diameter and wind the screw in until it just touches the pin. Never start with screw more than 1/2 way out. refer also to

down to "Engines,Plugs,Tuning, Petrol, Turbines, Mufflers, Cleaning, Anodising etc" sub section = "Carburettors, Tuning & Performance Testing, Glow Plugs." amongst many others are for example =

Cen Racing - good tutorial on tuning, care & maintenance Extend Engine Life - M.A.N article How to Rebuild Your Nitro Engine - RC Nitro Magazine,*** Installation of Model Engine Bearings K&B owners guides - Carbuettor tuning etc Modifying Your Engine - Expansion Chambers etc Performance Testing of Engines - Martin.Hepperle Perry Pumps & Carburettors Prop and rpm performance figures - RCFAQ Running In Engines - Brian Hampton Setting the Idle Mixture _ Brian Hampton The Technology of Glow Plugs Tuning and setting Car & Truck engines***

regards Alan T. Alan's Hobby, Model & RC Web Links

Dr1:

this is what i love about your posts. it apparently doesn't matter to you that we are talking about a specific engine, and a specific engine that has worked well for a whole bunch of people without having to resort to voodoo wizardy to make it run. its enough for you that there is an airbleed carb and that is enough to invoke the generalizations. so maybe you might read his post with a little more thought to the specific nature of the inquiry, and the mountains of experience that support the response. just my two cents.

And that's what your reply is worth, two cents. I do not rely on "mountains of experience" heresay from others. I rely on what I, personally, have experienced. Every air-bleed carb I've ever tuned ran rich at idle, unless the bleed hole was modified. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!"

You'll probably take this on board with your ego instead of your intellect as well, but then, that's your cross to bear.

You need to acquire discernment.

Getting "personal" would be indulging in ad hominem 'argument'. I didn't do that. Nor did I imply or state that you're either a bad person, or that your argument was stupid. You've since managed to do that on your own.

What I did say with that sentence was that the point made in the preceding sentence by you was FALSE. I addressed and denied the veracity of it relative to the specific case in point, supporting it with fact rather than unsubstantiated, generalised supposition. Quite succinctly and with a contemporary word of common usage which I normally abhor, but chosen deliberately because it couldn't be confused even by someone limited by the comprehension and literacy an

8 year old which you seem to prefer?

Now your "know it all" nose is simply out of joint as illustrated by the following sentence. Got a revelation for you. None of us know it all...even if comfort zones are reinforced and egos fed by such delusion.

Err...in this quite specific case, not me, the empirical evidence, the facts and O.S. MAX all speak adequately enough for themselves. All I've done is illustrate them.

I appreciate that you appear to prefer the rejection of valid information when it presents you with what you perceive as an embarrassing loss of face? Get over it. A way to avoid compromising yourself in future is to think before you speak, and then speak from a position of knowledge or *pertinent* experience rather than either conjecture or dogmatic opinion. You had the out diplomatically offered by my first retort posed as a question. Your ego chose to don the adornment of Grand Master - poor choice if you'll forgive the liberty of me saying so.

Talk a lot. Well yes. That's the essence of interpersonal communication unless one is scrawling in the journalistic sense to the lowest common denominator of literacy, attention span or intellect. Big words? My childhood was one of TV deprivation, and when people's literacy in general extended beyond the 64 point 4 word headline. OTOH, I can be abruptly succinct when appropriate, and I at least know when it's wiser to remain silent.

on my part.

But it is until you present some, any, quite specific anecdotal evidence' other than what you allegedly read somewhere, or refer to in generalised terms akin to the ubiquitous "they" (or the equally elusive "someone" (else)) who should always "do something".

In the case in point re the air bleed carb of the O.S. MAX 40FP, you are in point of fact WRONG. In the case in point of the ENYA CX45 your generalisation is similarly contravened. As such, the evidence itself contradicts your belief, providing rebuttal of your generalised experience viewpoint. According to the rules of logical deduction, this means your belief is based upon a false premise, irrespective that disclosure of this is distasteful to you. Pick up the 'clue', absorb it, learn from it and move on.

Well on this occasion, you're apparently intent upon trying your hardest to make it appear you did.

Not in this particular case you haven't - quite apparently. Hey, its OK. You don't have to WIN to be a good person.

That statement is just so silly and unworthy of you.

Then apparently Brian Winch who reviewed the engine, whose article was syndicated worldwide, and hundreds of thousands of other "lucky" 40FP owners did to?

I'm sure you do. But if you think about what you've just said, both it, and what you said, are rather silly positions to adopt.

I'm sure Mike G's adult enough to assimilate the information presented and make up his own mind without either of us telling him how he MUST chew his steak. :)