Re: looking for rugged, approx. 8' winspan to carry 5-10lb. payload

I very strongly suggest you learn to fly R/C before you go much further in your efforts. There are a great multitude of failure points you need to learn about before you put $ in the air using a control system that was designed by someone not knowing what he was trying to control...

Learn a little about the structure you are going to try to tie your 'system' to. Is it strong enough to keep that 3 pound battery INSIDE the plane? That and other little stupid questions really are important to you.

A lot of work has been done by university groups in aerial robot competition over the last 14 years:

I don't think a lot of skilled RPV/UAV people hang out here. The folks who know how to do what you want have got commercial and/or military applications in mind. Cf. Aerosonde:

It was the first UAV to cross the Atlantic:

Maynard Hill built a model that crossed the Atlantic and met FAI standards (5 kg. wet,

Marty-

I'm sure that a Kadet Sr overpowered with a .90 engine as I suggested will fly at 5-10 lbs overweight. What I am rather less sure about is the ability of somebody that has apparently no prior experience with an R/C model to fly it.

Abel

Agreed.

Agreed.

I'm pretty sure we can help this fellow get started in RC. What he does after that--as long as no innocent bystanders get hurt!--is his business. :o)

I should have mentioned in an earlier post that the AMA almost certainly will not provide insurance for folks developing autonomous UAVs. I don't know how the planes and helis in the aerial robotic competition are insured.

Marty

We should all take heed. Just look at what the BATFE is doing to rocketry. I hate to actually say it but using an RC plane is more likely to be used as means to deliver an explosive than a rocket . Some insiders say they have their sights on RC right now. The future will tell...

Yeah, and Ryder trucks and B767's are rather obviously more likely to be used than an R/C plane. What insiders are you refering to - do they have black helicopters? BTW, BATF isn't running their jackboots over model rockets because of their potential to deliver explosives. Those bureautwits think model rockets ARE explosives.

Abel

Okay... statement qualification

I doubt the OS40 could cover much ground carrying 19lbs into a 20mph headwind :P

--- Rich

To deny any possibility that our hobby could be used in a harmful way and the government won't step in is foolish. Even your last statement hints to the ignorance that runs rampant today.

Do you honestly think that in the remote possibility of the use of an R/C for deployment, the government won't do a thing. To overlook and casually dismiss the knee-jerk reaction these agencies have taken in the past is ignorant of their past and present actions. There's an awful lot riding on this, and at the very LEAST, it could affect the freedoms of hundreds of thousands of modelers across this nation.

They said the terrorists did the impossible on 9-11. Hopefully, that can't happen again with the new security systems in place. The news reports that they are actively seeking other means to an end. Can you 100% guarantee that there is absolutely 0% possibility, now or in the future, that what we enjoy won't be used for hatred? If so, I seriously hope you are right.

In retrospect, I am glad the original poster expounded on the facts behind his question. Being open and forthright from the onset would've saved some vain attempts at humiliation thrown at some of us (who aren't as well known as others) and seemingly easy targets. I don't understand why you and others feel compelled to turn this into a personal attack with false accusations bordering on slander. Keep the defamatory remarks to yourselves and stick to the subject.

Greg

And it amazes me even more, how a highly educated author and teacher, can misread a post that wasn't even directed at him, and stoop to making this personal. Sure, I don't have a well known name, but there is a big difference in your responses.

So, let's get personal. Looking at your past history of replies to questions concerning this topic, you are, if nothing else, consistent. Let's start 6 days after 9-11-01...

Why don't you just stick to the subject at hand? Don't you think your response would've had a better reception if you'd left out the vain attempts at defamation?

Greg

No argument but I think the real problem here will be when it has to do a

Able,

An article in the L.A. Times the other day carried this quote: "Remote-controlled planes are "no longer a hobby-shop business," said Maj. Gen. Wilbert D. Pearson Jr., commander of Edwards Air Force Base. "It's now a serious military operation."

I would say the hobby does have their attention! For good or bad!

Chuck

Aunt Prudence's African Violet food and the sack of sugar she bought to make brownies with are potentially the ingredients of a car bomb, or Arab goat boy bomb, as the case be. What do you think should be done about it?

Anything is possible, even using an R/C model as a weapon. No military in the world has exploited them for that purpose, so one might think that potential is not considered to be very practical as compared to, for example, guns. Some fanatic paramilitary groups have no doubt toyed with the idea, but found Arab goat boys a more practical solution to the problem of weapon delivery. They have a better payload capability, are easier to operate covertly, have more accurate and reliable guidance, and are simple to manufacture and so there are no supply problems.

Can you say with any measure of seriousness that 'the impossible' of

Ah yes, stay on subject. Before you brought your paranoia over terrorism into this thread, the subject was UAVs and model airplanes.

Abel

snipped for brevity

Paranoia over terrorism....hardly. Concerned that we might have to give up more freedoms for the sake of "public safety", yes.

Greg

Greg, I didn't read it quite that strongly. But there are other more august crazies of this forum who insist I need professional help.

That may be, but accusing everyone on this thread of "defamatory remarks" does not seem to me to be producing the effect you want.

I agree . As Americans we sit idle while these bureaucrats pass un-american junk like the patriot act. Not that its entirely garbage but the suspension of habeas corpus is always wrong. "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."

Six, I get your point. I never meant to make this personal. It's hard not to when the two posters (not everyone) use derogatory remarks to belittle someone who has a different view than theirs. That's disheartening because I had the utmost respect for both of them prior to this.

Thank you for your approach and openness Six. There's a huge difference in how you handle things and it's appreciated.

Take care,

Greg

| >Buy a model airplane e.g.., a Sig Sr Kadet Almost-Ready-to-Fly), which | >fits the criteria you set, Add a .90 cu. in. glow engine (e.g., OS | >.91) and R/C gear. Check the Yellow pages, there many shops in LA | >that can supply all of the above. Add 5-10 lbs of bricks (I think the | >Kadet fuselage will accomodate this - if not use diver's belt weights) | >and then go out in the boonies and see if you can learn to fly it.

That is fine advice. | In a college competition a few years ago, the winning team used | an OS 40 FP to carry NINETEEN (19!) pounds of payload.

Really, this isn't rocket science. And even if it was, it's of the pretty straightforward sort ...

You make a plane that is as light as possible, of course. But you leave room right at the CoG for your load.

You make the largest wingspan possible, with the smallest aspect ratio. As a starting point, you may want to start with a 3 or 4 meter glider meant for the lightest lift conditions and modify it as needed.

You put a large, low pitch prop on the engine. This plane is meant to fly *slow*, since more speed requires more power, power that you don't have to squander.

Then you start adding weight and seeing how it flies. If done properly, it'll be flimsy and fragile -- but strength adds weight.

I saw a solar plane documented somewhere -- it had a 3 or 4 meter wingspan, and had only an astroflight 010 for power (powered by all those solar cells.) Yet it would fly all day long, as long as it had sun.

It's amazing what you can do with a large enough aspect ratio. It becomes an issue of being able to build light and strong enough ...

| That record has given me all kinds of confidence about what | will and won't fly.

I doubt that was a record. Just a contest ...

Down... down... down....

I can't even say it :)

--- Rich