Re: why don't we see any zapped cells?

It is done, but only for higher capacity batteries. What it does is put a huge surge of current through the cell, essentially welding the cell together internally. This gives it a much lower internal resistance which in turn allows the cell to deliver higher current. I don't think it has any effect on capacity, and I am pretty sure that it is not a good idea to zap all cells...it all depends on how they are physically constructed.

You CAN buy zapped cells from many places, I have bought a lot of batteries from

I have even read about certian devices you can buy to zap your own cells, but they are expensive and dangerous...the capacitors they use are very large and can hold a lot of energy.

earth.

Its time consuming, doesn't always work, and gains very little in most applications - only a few people need ultra high power for a few seconds

- usually ducted fan, pyon racers or high performance ailplanes.

For average use, its better to spebnd the extra money on (more) Lithium, cells. More power and duration per unit weight is what we want. The car boys want power per unit size.

Right here LOL. Zapping is probably right up there with devices to rejuvenate cells, erasing memory, etc. when it comes to the con games played in the battery business.

Consequently since zapping is a religious experience for some I don't engage in the discussions.

I would love to have the money we (GE) invested in investigations of zapping for some major customers, particularly in the power tool market where they wanted some extra punch.

-- Red S. Red's R/C Battery Clinic

Take a piece of standard electrical tape...put it longitudinally down the roof of the car body...win a couple of races, claiming all the while how that slick tape has reduced drag on your car....next day half the racers will be lined up at the local automotive store looking for the same tape...

zapped cells anyone???

cheers astroflyer

| I would question their graph since it seems to show that the zapped cell now | has about 1/3 more capacity than the un-zapped cell! Look at the area of | the graph under each line.

Well, if the zapping really does decrease the internal resistance, then that is exactly what I'd expect to see. The mAh capacity is obviously unchanged (because the battery peters out at exactly the same place, and it's being discharged at a constant rate) but it's delivering it at a higher voltage. Since it's a pretty quick discharge (20 amps), lowering the internal resistance should make a big difference. (if the discharge were only 2 amps, the difference would be much smaller.)

Also note that the graph stops at 0.9 volts rather than 0 volts, so the difference isn't as huge as it looks at first. Still, it's substantial.

I used to think that zapping was snake oil, but this graph really does suggest otherwise. Alas, I don't have any zapped cells to test myself, and don't have the equipment to zap cells myself, so I was asking if anybody else had any experience ...

I guess what I may need to do is buy some identical cells, zapped and unzapped, and make my own graphs.

| > For example, here's a graph that shows the difference that zapping | > made for this (NiMH, but zapping is also done with NiCd) cell -- | >

| >

| Take a piece of standard electrical tape...put it longitudinally down | the roof of the car body...win a couple of races, claiming all the | while how that slick tape has reduced drag on your car....next day | half the racers will be lined up at the local automotive store looking | for the same tape... | | zapped cells anyone???

That's cute, and there may even be some truth to it (the idea that car racers are lemmings), but obviously there's more benefit to `zapping' than to adding a piece of electrical tape to your car's body.

Either that, or this graph is faked.

It looks like the "test" was only done with one cell of each. I would like to see some REAL testing done on large quantities over a longer time period before I was willing to spend more money on zapped cells.

Same thing happened to me in full scale autocross. My Datsun 510 had purple ignition wires and all the techies were ohhing and ahhing over them. They LOOKED so cool! Well, I won my class against BMWs and Hondas and the next week, half the cars in the class had the purple wires! I still beat them!

Back when i raced RC cars,i had all the battery testing equipment that tested discharge rate for individual cells so you could build a matched pack with all the cells with equal discharge rate ie: volts and time. I had some used cells zapped and it does indeed work. They have be zapped individually,they all had increased run time with higher voltage output,the voltage stayed higher for a longer time. Never had one damaged by zapping. Zapping a battery for airplane use would be not worth the time or money,however it does if your racing cars and need the optimun battery where every second of run time counts. I know there are some doubters but i know first hand that it does work and is not a con game. DOUG

Red , this is kinda off topic but I just had to tell you about this. I have a Futaba 3 ch surface TX that I bought in 1988 and it was about a year old then. I used it on one of my nitro boats up until two years ago with the same battery pack. I got the radio out a few days ago and charged it and cycled it. It Still works and shows good capacity on my DigiPace. I'm afraid to use it in a 50 mph nitro boat until I get a new pack but I am runnning it in an electric RC car. It has 2/3 AA cells (8) and the cells have no name on them. They are a dark bluish-green color. I can hardly believe these cells are working after almost 14 years. Just how long can some of these ni-cads last anyway ? Would you have idea what brand cells they are by the color ?

Thanks

Ken Day

You'll notice that zapped cells are primarily used in competition. Most people who casually drive their R/C cars are content with the cheapest packs they can get their hands on. The car goes, and that's what matters. Going 1/100000 of a second faster than the other guy is not important, because there is no other guy.

The same thing is going on in R/C planes. Zapped cells are being used extensively in competitive events like F5B, but the casual flier sees no need for the added expense just to eek a little extra juice out of the batteries. The plane flies, and that's what matters.

Basically, zapped cells are attractive to people who fly/drive in competitive events. The rest of us would rather have longer flight times.

I have a choice to believe an R/C car driver or the man that was involved in the development, design and production of batteries for years. That's a no brainer!

Dan Thompson (AMA 32873, EAA 60974, WB4GUK, GROL)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

What ever, i know it works............

If this improved the cells in any way without harmful effects, don't you think Sanyo, Panasonic, et al would be doing it?????

-- EloyM

EloyM

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted from the RCGroups.com Discussion Forums. Visit us at

If this improved the cells in any way without harmful effects, don't you think Sanyo, Panasonic, et al would be doing it?????

Give it a rest,if you dont believe it works thats fine, I have no freakin reason to lie.

You are right. Believe the guy who has actually done it, not the guy who can't see any reasons why it should work...

"Eppur, Sui Muove"

Did you even read Red's post. He said they did a LOT of testing at GE. Probably a LOT more than all the RC car people combined.

Did you even read Red's post. He said they did a LOT of testing at GE. Probably a LOT more than all the RC car people combined.

You are not the only believer. Most car guys that it works. Technology that started in garages does not need to be inferior. In support of the non-believers: In a plane however it is a different story. The higher sustained motor terminal voltage will increase current draw, because the propeller is a much different motor load as compared to a car rounding its laps. The plane will have a bit more power right up to the end, but probably no longer flight. To check that theory, I programmed a model in E-calc; if I reduce the 2400 cells Ri from 5.3 to 4 mOhm, flight duration drops from 7.4 to 7.2 minutes, whilst climb angle increases from 17 to 18 degrees, and a level speed gain of about two mph is obtained. This indicates that the use of Flashed cells in sports flight is of no advantage, whereas high performance flight will gain from it, at the cost of duration.

And in all fairness, the "battery tech" has not been a battery tech for GE for some time now. Who knows what's been going on that he hasn't seen or heard of in the meantime?

Yep! The human creature is fully capable of convincing himself and others that a particular process actually improves something when in fact, it does not! And they'll honestly believe it!

Then again, the same creature is fully capable of doing the exact opposite. Especially when they can't see a way of making a buck out of it!