If you are the ARF type..

If it looks like SPAM, smells like SPAM, and tastes like SPAM, odds are it is indeed SPAM...

If you *don't* understand why folks build their own planes, it's pretty damned clear *you've* never built a successful one...

Their stuff looks like a lot of cheap Chinese junk! Make me a quality ARF: I don't give a damn about the price!

Ciao,

Mr Akimoto

And you can tell that just from the pictures? Man, your eyesight is a lot better than mine!

What's weird is I've been tripping across a bunch of little resellers that stock these same glow trainers lately:

The pricing at is the most aggressive, but they seem to be charging a little more for shipping.

The distributor for the Start Evolution 2 trainer here in the U.S. is some company called Selective R/C out in Placentia, CA. Their website is

RC Universe has Selective R/C listed as a manufacturer in it's User Airplane Review section, but nobody has ever rated any of their products.

As tempting as a $49 trainer ARF looks, it would be $62 to $68 delivered by the time I was (over)charged for shipping. For $69 I can order a Tower Hobbies Trainer .40 MkII ARF with free shipping and have a known level of quality and customer service. I'd rather just spend the $8.00 to not have to second guess the quality of my purchase.

One of these days, somebody somewhere is going to actually buy, build, and fly one of the Start Evolution or Yamoto trainers from Selective R/C and actually write up an opinion about them. I just don't want to be the first to plunge in on these ultracheap ARFs with my own hard-earned money.

I have seen several of the kits they're selling. they are definitely not JUNK although they are made in China. The quality coming out of China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Vietnam is pretty astounding. don't knock it if you haven't tried it lately.

How do you get free shipping from Tower hobbies? Hmmm?

Super Saver Club. I paid $14.99 instead of $7.99 when I ordered my NexStar last April to join the Super Saver Club for one year. I get free shipping on all orders $150 or larger in addition to any other discounts or promotions.

I just ordered a Tiger Stick .40 ARF along with some epoxy and fuel tubing on Friday. I needed to bump up the order to get free shipping, so I went ahead and ordered the G3 Flight Simulator to keep my thumbs warmed up over the winter. I got $40 off and free shipping.

If I just wanted a $69 Tower Hobbies Trainer MkII ARF and I didn't want to bump up my order to $150 for free shipping, I'd have to pay the $7.99. If I were ordering at least $100, I could order through OmniModels at

and get free shipping. OmniModels basically resells everything Tower resells for the same price, including the $69 Tower Hobbies Trainer MkII ARF for $69.

With the free shipping and volume discounts that Tower offers for Super Saver members, it really makes trying to shop elsewhere a challenge.

| Super Saver Club. I paid $14.99 instead of $7.99 when I ordered my NexStar | last April to join the Super Saver Club for one year. I get free shipping | on all orders $150 or larger in addition to any other discounts or | promotions.

Yes, but it's pretty dishonest to suggest that you can buy a $70 plane from Tower and get free shipping.

Tower did recently have a promotion that offered free shipping for $50+ purchases --

Thank you for your recent Tower Hobbies order. To make it easier to place your next order we are offering an opportunity to receive Free Shipping on any [2]Tower Hobbies order of $50 or more placed on or before 09/01/05. All you have to do to receive this Free Shipping Offer is use [3]ad number 599XB when placing your next order via the web (enter it in the yellow box within your [4]shopping cart), over the phone or by mail.

but you had to be on their mailing list to get it, and it's expired now. (And you should be on their mailing list. They often have very good deals, like the recent `$20 off a $50 or more' purchase.)

| I just ordered a Tiger Stick .40 ARF along with some epoxy and fuel tubing | on Friday. I needed to bump up the order to get free shipping, so I went | ahead and ordered the G3 Flight Simulator to keep my thumbs warmed up over | the winter. I got $40 off and free shipping.

Really, the `$X off for purchases over $Y' promotions that Tower offers most of the time are the real bargain. Most of the time you can get about 10% off, and sometimes you can do even better than that.

| If I just wanted a $69 Tower Hobbies Trainer MkII ARF and I didn't want to | bump up my order to $150 for free shipping, I'd have to pay the $7.99. If I | were ordering at least $100, I could order through OmniModels at |

and get free shipping. OmniModels basically | resells everything Tower resells for the same price, including the $69 Tower | Hobbies Trainer MkII ARF for $69.

Hmm, wasn't aware of them. Thanks for the pointer.

Looks like they're even run by the same people. The software running the site is the same as well ...

| With the free shipping and volume discounts that Tower offers for Super | Saver members, it really makes trying to shop elsewhere a challenge.

Not at all. Tower may be the overall winner, but there's lots of niche markets (servos, batteries, etc.) where you can do much better elsewhere.

| >> As tempting as a $49 trainer ARF looks, it would be $62 to $68 delivered | >> by the time I was (over)charged for shipping. For $69 I can order a | >> Tower Hobbies Trainer .40 MkII ARF with free shipping and have a known | >> level of quality and customer service. I'd rather just spend the $8.00 | >> to not have to second guess the quality of my purchase.

Hmm, sorry for my "dishonesty," let me see if I can break this down a little more simply:

$49.00 - Start Evolution 2 from

$16.63 - shipping and handling from nitroplanes.com to my apartment, ZIP

68114 $65.63 - total for Start Evolution 2 ARF delivered to my door

$69.99 - Tower Trainer 40 MkII ARF from

$7.99 - shipping and handling from Tower Hobbies to my apartment, ZIP

68114 $76.98 - total for Tower Trainer 40 MkII ARF delivered to my door

$11.35 is the (maximum) difference between the completely unknown Start Evolution 2 trainer ARF and the Tower Trainer 40 MkII ARF.

How do they compare based on RC Universe reviews?

An average 4.5 rating for the Tower Hobbies ARF, and no ratings or comments at all about the Star(t) Evolution 2 ARF, good or bad.

All I'm saying is, in this case at least, cheap just isn't cheap enough to roll the dice on an unknown.

If I need an engine, radio, or building supplies to put either plane together, I can order all I want from Tower and gain additional discounts without adding a penny of additional shipping charges. The folks at

can't even sell me a radio or engine.

Slaughter:

You're definitely blind, and it is cheap crap. I guess you like crap or you're used to it, so you aren't able to distinguish between good stuff and bad.

Ciao,

Mr Akimoto

First, join the club, then buy the one thing you need, then add on enough stuff you might need to get to $150. I think that's how it goes, I let my friend by my stuff when he orders. When they threaten to stop sending "tower Talk" at some point they'll send a really good coupon, like $10 off $50 order, might have even been better than that. Tower's ok but the LHS tries to match them. I special ordered a Macs pre-tuned pipe after one like it went on Ebay for about $90 and it cost me $65 when he got it in! mk

Mr. Akimoto, Thank you for your encouraging words. I have been building and flying models for 54 years. How long have you been around with your esteemed opinions. Hmmmm?

Under this name or some of his previous ones. COJ or KK? :-)

RS

Not to defend Nitro PLanes at all, but when I was there, I took a goo

look at their trainer. Looks like a copycat of the Avistar, with (m guess) the same air foil (semi symetrical). So when comparing wit Tower, then we should do that with a low end Avistar (sticky pape covering). BTW, it is not made in China. It is VietNam production. Go figure.

Bought a Giles 202 there and have put it together. Not bad at all with the surprising Ok English manual (usually funny English). All th hardware was there, but some stuff, I had no idea where to use it. The reccommend high power servos, and they are right. I used regula standard Futaba Stuff, and it is a bit sluggish. Changed to th reccommended servos and flies very well, in my humble opinion. Used OS 46 with it.

OTOH, we do design our own planes and use CAD to do it. We have don several projects (some are jets with EDF units in them), and kits ar available.

LBNL, Raidentech and these guys are the same Company. I actuall wanted a AP Video Cam from them, but noticed they had all this othe stuff. Half of them not even listed..

-- indoruwe

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Order from Omni. Any order over $100, shipping is free.

And deny me the chance to decide that he's a fool and the chuckle I get when I read his trolls? Give me USENET. :) mk

And I have actually built and flown some of the stuff they're selling. While I will not call them junk, I will say the quality of their stuff is several levels below the name brands such as World Models. One gets what one pays for. In the case of the stuff from Raidentech, and all the other names they create to stay ahead of some of the bad reviews they've received, the price reduction comes from little to no customer service, and a lower quality product.

That is what I thought when I picked my stuff from them. Once tha Giles was finished, it was a lot less money in the end, and not hal bad looking either. So depending how much service I will get out o this plane will determine if it was worth it. Right now, after flyin the bugger, I would NOT be able to say that the quality hampered th flying characteristics. But then a lot depends on pilot skill

-- indoruwe

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