We need rc-killer-helicopters in Iraq!!!

A lessor is one who leases...you men lesser..

Whilst Saddam and the Ba'ath party were indeed enemies, they were not US enemies.

The threat was to their own people, to Iran, to Kuwait, to Saud, and especially to the paranoid Israel.

As to why this meant that 'brave' (or cowardly) US lives should be put at risk in those interests, uyou need to understand the motivation of the ex-communist, mainly Jewish 'Neo Conservatives', who dicteted Bush's foreign policy.

The message from "Morgans" contains these words:

And I suppose you are a true believer of all the s**te spouted forth by our wonderful politicians? in my opinion the invasion of Iraq was carried out under false pretence so any attempt at justification is on thin ice. Iraq and Afghanistan are only recent aquaintances of the USA but Britain has a long history of involvement with them and it was British cartography that provided accurate maps of both countries in preperation for both Gulf wars, Iraq was a supporter of Germany during WW2 and German Luftwaffe crews flew German aircraft but with Iraqi markings against the allies. Further back in history British military led long campaigns against Afghanistan on the north-west front and Khyber Pass in an attempt to conquer the country but as the Russians found to their cost you cannot fight Afghan tribesmen with conventional methods. There are war memorials to British troups dating back to WW1 in the Iraqi desert listing many hundreds of war dead so historically it is old hat to us to be at war with Iraq or Persia as it was known, the mistake the US is making is just another action replay updated of what British troops went through in the first 1/4 of the 20th century getting itself mixed up in a catch 22 situation where it cannot afford to stay in Iraq but its pride wont let it leave. The US has spent far too much time studying the military side of the war and not taken into account the beliefs and way of life an Arab leads, we save a visit to church for sundays but the Arab leads his life according to the Muslim religeon 24 hours a day every day of his life and even then his remains have to be disposed of according to religeous teachings, unlike WW1 and WW2 where you were up against the military forces of Germany in Iraq and the Afghan you are up against a whole nation down to the last kid in the street where parents are happy to sacrifice their children turning them into gunmen and suicide bombers if it guarantees them entry into paradise,

regards, Terry

This is what we get from some twit in Australia (100 miles NNW of Canberra) who would be speaking Japanese now if it were not for American "aggression".

People like him should live under Islamic law where their thinking is done for them.

Red S.

"quietguy" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@REMOVE-TO-REPLYconfidential-counselling.com...

"Red Scholefield" skrev i meddelandet news:hWvki.21580$ snipped-for-privacy@bignews3.bellsouth.net...

"aggression".

Yes, the japs, imagine they want revenge on some that nuked them. I bet they could produce multi GPS-guided-killer-hellacopters in no time...

Listen mommy,what's that buzz in the air....

There are enough people in this world that do what they are told to do and go where they are told to go.

JjT

"quietguy" skrev i melding news: snipped-for-privacy@REMOVE-TO-REPLYconfidential-counselling.com...

My reply was for the original poster, not you :) HE was talking "cave-man" politics

...and like most yanks you are conveniently forgetting that the Japanese got pissed off because America cut off their oil while they were in the mddle of a war with China. If the US had minded its own business and not attacked Japan things may have been quite different

David

Red Scholefield wrote:

The message from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:

The situation in Iraq is now ten times worst than it was under Saddam with hundreds of people being killed on a daily basis (yesterday 220 dead), the police force organised and trained by US instructors is so corrupt under the surface that it is more of a danger to the people than a help and most of the officers worked for Saddam pre-war anyway so all they have done is changed bosses not jobs or habits. You will never alter the way an Arab thinks or acts because unlike us his day and way he lives it is dictated by the Quarran and not civil or military law, if it is a choice of act according to the religeous law or civil law then religion will win every time, the best thing for everyone to contain the situation is for the US and Britain to get their respective arses out of the Middle East and let Arab deal with Arab under the only form of law they understand as they have done for two thousand years or more. Once a stable form of existance is attained just give them a good slapping if they get out of line because that is the only process they understand, this is the law that Saddam understood and why he was ruler of Iraq for so long and America and Britain need to stop thinking that a democratic approach will work because it wont - the Viet Cong only had one objective and one train of thought and so does the Arab which is why America has another Viet Nam on its hands where it is in a no-win situation and if America stays in Iraq like Viet Nam all they will have to show for it is an extension to Arlington National Cemetary and an aweful lot of grieving families,

regards, Terry

There's a fair degree of truth in that.

That is not so. Whilst Islam runs as deep with them as fundamentalist Xtianity does in the US hinterland, it is not a given: In fact Iraq was largely a secular country..religion was NOT part of the government or authority and many Middle Eastern countries have peaceful coexistence between many religions.

You should not confuse the unpleasantness of Saddam - basically a tribal dictatorship, of a normal fascist style - with the religious theocracies that are being advanced - like the Taliban or aspects of Iran - by essentially very rich powerful and conservative influences funded with petrodollars and lurking in Saud or Pakistan, and being supported by those to whom the Wests easy access to middle eastern oil resources is an object of envy and greed.

Actually the best thing to do would be to run the bloody country under a protectorate of the USA, Russia and the EU, and martial law, until such time as its fit to stand on its own two feet..basically 30-50 years.

However such long term planning and dedication to advancement is not a politically acceptable solution to those seeking 'instant fixes'

Yup. Leaving VietNam when on the point of winning was a very strange thing to do.

Terrorist and civil wars can be - if not 'won' - at least brought to a reasonably satisfactory conclusion, as we proved in Malaya, and just about in N Ireland.

However it takes a generation growing up in the midst of bloodshed and mayhem to realise that perhaps the thing they want most of all, is not a given faction with all the guns in their hands, but rather a lot less guns all round.

Apparently you think that where we REALLY screwed up was when we prevented your friends, the Tojo Japanese, from invading Australia. From what I saw in Sydney, you might be alone in that opinion. Of course you welcome the radical Muslims because they do belong to you, as was proven in Bali...

Dude, you are in need some serious professional help. Instead of throwing rocks from your glass house, get yourself a counselor who can show you were reality really is.

"quietguy" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@REMOVE-TO-REPLYconfidential-counselling.com...

from "Ed Cregger" contains these words:

It is,as many continental manufacturers have done, fairly easy to design and build a reliable fuel efficient car that will top 40 mpg easily and still provide comfort and good looks, even Ford of Europe have some of the nicest designs around now that they have stopped trying to miniaturise American designs, they just didnt look right in a smaller format. Our problem right now is Off-road vehicles like the Warrior and Shogun designed for American roads but now finding themselves on British roads which are far narrower and basically laid out for British-sized cars, the bloody things take up 1.5 parking bays in the car parks and if one stops alongside you at a road junction you have to wait for it to go because you cant see a thing until it is gone, one 'car' in four is now a fairly large Shogun type on British roads now and even the government has seen the light and started to legislate aginst their use with higher taxes and so on.

Dont watch TV much Ed, too much doom and gloom for me, prefer to be changing my workshop over from ship building yard to aircraft hanger.......:-).

Iraq will be deemed

Not a bad idea and it has worked if only by accident with Yugoslavia, if it had stayed as a whole with the firepower it inherited from Russia it could have been quite a worry for NATO but now the blood letting is over and things are relatively calm once more the different ethnic populations are finding their own way and even the perpetrators of masacres and such are being brought to justice slowly, it would be a step forward in the middle east and Saudi and other smaller countries would breath a sigh of relief no doubt.

There is much that goes on in the US that we never here about over here in the UK, how do you fancy another Clinton in the W.H? strangly enough there is a company over here in the UK named Clinton that makes birthday cards......:-) they also make cards with 'In Deepest Sympathy' on them too..............

Not a bad idea at all, I think I will join you mate...............

regards, Terry

We dont have a Liberal government in the UK but if the US had to put up with what is forced on us here by the EEC you would have good reason to be worried, apart from the influx from ex-Commonwealth countries who have a right to come to the UK we now have thousands of legal and illegal immigrants from ex-Communist countries who have now become members of the EU, this is not only causing problems on the labour market but also a shortage of housing and an added burden on the National health Service and in some parts of the country the schools system. All this is not by choice of the British Government but forced on us by the abolition of borders within Europe so you can live in Germany and work in France if you wish, Britain because of its island nature has always been something of an isolationist country and glad to have the English Channel between them and us and most Brits hope it bloody stays that way,

regards, Terry

| Americans stopped driving V-8 powered cars many, many years | ago. Decades ago, in fact. V-8 gasoline/petrol engines are somewhat | rare today. They have been replaced by V-6 engines and four-cylinder | engines long ago.

You must live in another America than I do.

Around here (Texas), lots of SUVs and big trucks and a few cars are powered by V8s. Even many sports cars have eight (or more) cylinder engines. (Does this argument still apply if they have eight cylinders, but aren't arranged in a V? That would open up even more American vehicles.)

V8 engines are rare? What bizarro America do you live in? My guess would be that 20% of the vehicles on the road have a V8 around here.

Really, the number of cylinders doesn't matter much -- it's the total displacement. Which is probably part of why you don't see many multi-cylinder glow engines for planes -- sure, they look cool, but you can get more power for less weight by just using a big cylinder rather than lots of smaller ones. But they certainly do *look* cool

-- though you certainly pay for that cool look (and the price is probably the other part of why you don't see them often, except in the Tower catalog of course.)

| I'm going back to discussing model airplanes. This is just too depressing.

Indeed. A usually perfectly good newsgroup, filled with political crap. If it's completely off topic, don't post it!

Cars, not trucks.

By your own admission, you DO live in Texas.

Where else but Texas would a four door, crew cab pick up truck be considered a limousine? You live in a farm/desert state. May I suggest that Texas is nowhere nearly large enough to set the tone for the rest of the USA. I know that is a difficult concept for a Texan to grasp...

I'm just tagging along with what someone else started, not that I haven't started such tripe in the distant past. But I'm better now - aren't I Doc?

Ed Cregger

Have them all over MONTANA, not some sissyfied place like back east. Hit a deer there and your bumper get tweaked, hit a deer here and your semi gets totaled...fyi Moose are the biggest deer in north america. I wont go into how upset Bison get when small cars hit them or the bears etc.

Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, North/South Dakota and few others. It's not just a limo for prom night it's for working from.

Supposedly, but what do I know I'm crazy. What can you do?

| > | Americans stopped driving V-8 powered cars many, many years | > | ago. Decades ago, in fact. V-8 gasoline/petrol engines are somewhat | > | rare today. They have been replaced by V-6 engines and four-cylinder | > | engines long ago. | >

| > You must live in another America than I do. | | Cars, not trucks.

Ok, but the post you referred to said automobiles. Trucks are automobiles, as are SUVs. And it's not just trucks and SUVs with V8 engines ... lots of cars have them too.

Americans have not stopped driving V-8 powered cars, trucks or SUVs.

| > V8 engines are rare? What bizarro America do you live in? My guess | > would be that 20% of the vehicles on the road have a V8 around here. | | Where else but Texas would a four door, crew cab pick up truck be considered | a limousine?

Um, you're off the deep end now. They're not considered limousines here either, unless they're specially modified to be a limousine.

You know, something like this?

... except that this is Ohio.

| You live in a farm/desert state.

You have to bring your prejudices up to date, my friend. The soap opera `Dallas' ended in the early 90s, and it never represented all of Texas anyways.

And central Texas most certainly doesn't seem desert like at all lately. Alas, all this rain is cutting into my flying time. It might be OK if I spent my time fixing and building, but I don't want to do that either -- I want to fly!

Though unlike the guys in Switzerland, we're smart enough to not fly in it when it's really pouring, like this guy --

Actually, I'm going to a soaring contest tomorrow in Pflugerville Chance of rain 40%. I'll fly in the rain if it comes to that. I've done so before, though it wasn't raining as hard as the guy in that picture.

I'm not particularly good at the contests, but I managed to finish in the middle of the pack last time, so maybe I'm better than I give myself credit for. Or maybe I just got lucky. Probably just lucky -- I guess we'll find out tomorrow.

| May I suggest that Texas is nowhere nearly large enough to set the | tone for the rest of the USA. I know that is a difficult concept for | a Texan to grasp...

Texas is far more typical than you give it credit for. Everywhere I go, people like their trucks, and they like their SUVs. They even like their big cars and sports cars.

Yes, Texas has more trucks than any other state I've been in except for Alaska -- but they're hardly rare anywhere else. Florida was full of Cadillacs with V8 engines, Seattle with SUVs with V8 engines, Denver too ...

V8 engines are somewhat rare? No way.

America loves it's big cars, it's big trucks, it's big SUVs. Yes, this love affair happened back when gas was under $1/gallon, and it's hurting now, but change takes times.

| > Indeed. A usually perfectly good newsgroup, filled with political | > crap. If it's completely off topic, don't post it! | | I'm just tagging along with what someone else started, not that I haven't | started such tripe in the distant past. But I'm better now - aren't I Doc?

You're perpetuating it. As am I, but at least I'm throwing in something on-topic.

"Doug McLaren" wrote

Yes, but cars up on blocks don't count, unless the local title/loan agency still has the papers on file.

Ah, well. You might have caught me on that one.

In dinky little cars, like the ones that the majority of Americans drive these days. There aren't enough people in the entire West to begin to offset the people in the North East Corridor.

Living in a farming/cattle raising state offsets the ratio of trucks to cars in a favorable way. But even the small pickups that most folks drive don't utilize V-8 engines these days, which are the vast majority of trucks sales.

Little, teeny-weeny, four cylinder powered trucks. They are the vast majority of truck type vehicles being sold.

Those overloaded alleged trucks called SUVs are an abomination that serve no useful purpose and should be shot on sight (not the drivers).

Ed Cregger

"Dad, What's a V8?" "It's like a V1, son, but it does 8 times more damage"

The message from "Ed Cregger" contains these words:

Hi Ed, the UK end to end is only 1000 miles long, at its widest point it is only about 300 miles and has a vehicle population of around

15 million but as this island is a bit like a diamond shape with half the bottom point chopped off you can understand you can understand that the great majority of private cars are concentrated in the lower half where most of the big cities are located. What we call a big 4x4 is something in the Shogun or Warrior class and most have 4 litre approx turbocharged engines although quite a few are diesel, the problem is the physical size of them because the British road layout in older towns was designed for the horse and cart and the only way out is to demolish properties to widen the roads, new roads are designed to cater for larger vehicles and large trucks but once of the main motorway routes and into the towns you are in the brown smelly stuff if your rig is too big. SUV's were designed orriginally for long haul trips in places like Australia and Africa and the more sparsely populated parts of the US and Canada not for small European countries like the UK, driving around in a 'normal' car these days is like dodging high-speed tanks because the drivers feel invulnerable in such a big solid vehicle they are prone to take more chances knowing if you hit them they are safe but if they hit you then you stand a chance of getting creamed,

regards, Terry

The message from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:

What we need is a fleet of rc killer helicopters in the UK to take out all these bloody SUV's!!

regards, Terry