What do you consider?

Making sure there are adequate flying sites for modelers. Without that, there is no need for the AMA.

Heh! Heh! Now that's one I hadn't thought of. At least directly. But it follows the same basic concept as my answer. Which is, "Promote the Hobby". Why? Think about it. Promoting the hobby helps increase membership. It also gets the hobby out in the public eye. This in turn can help in keeping/obtaining flying sites, getting government support (freqs, flying sites), etc, etc.

Example: We recently had a newly released chunk of county property up for grabs for designated use. The horse crowd wanted "another" county sponsored equestrian center. The local R/C modelers wanted a place for a field. The land would work for either but not both. The horse side would cost the tax payers money, the modelers wouldn't. There is another such horse facility not to mention numerous private facilities in the county. There are NO R/C sites in the county. And I'm sure many of you could come up with additional pros and cons.

Bottom line, the county went with the Equestrian facility simply because more people were familiar with the activity and were willing to support it. The vast majority have no clue what's involved in R/C models nor of the contribution they play in the over all aviation industry. Burt Rutan this last week watched his SpaceShipOne win the 10 million dollar X-prize. It is the first official, 90% reusable, commercially produced (non government), pay for a ride space craft ever launched. Burt is also known for a variety of other aviation innovations. He got his start as a kid building flying models. Should be worth a flying field or two don't you think?

Now where do you think the next Burt Rutan is going to come from? If the AMA had it's act together, they see to it that he came from the AMA. And the only way to do that is to promote the hobby so you have the sites available when the next Burt Rutan wants to explore his possibilities.

Wonder how much money Lockheed, Boeing, etc, etc, would be willing to donate to help get the next generation of aerospace engineers started?

Think about it!

Chuck

To that Paul I agree. To a point. I however back it up a level and feel that the AMA should promote the hobby more, at a national level. That in turn would help with the flying site issue. But, there are ways the AMA could also help more than they do now to obtain sites while focusing at the club level. That's what the "Flying Site Coordinator" is supposed to be doing but they are either not being allowed in some way (money, time) to developed the program or don't know what they could or should be doing. I wouldn't be surprised to find out it was a little of both.

Like I said before, what might Lockheed, Boeing, etc be willing to donate to help find and bring on board the next generation of Rutan's?

To get your money.

I'm glad it's their job, not mine, to figure out how to do that. They hide us out of public sight. I'm not arguing with the very real and good reasons; it's just the way it is. Park flying, though, is out in the open, in view of the public. Heck, the little planes look approachable and accessible to common folks.

Alas, I don't see things ending up rosy. Ambitions, power, and size will grow, along with their ability to maim. Or threaten to maim. Or maybe just appear to threaten to possibly maim. All it takes is one mammy to fear for her baby on the soccer field, and start a backlash of flying bans. Maybe that's not in itself a bad thing. People like to think of themselves as reasonable. They won't banish the new flyers without giving them a place to go; new flying fields. But where does that leave us? We're back in our dark corners, safely out of sight and out of mind.

Rutan is a singularity. He ain't us, and we ain't him. As a youngster, I thought I would grow up to build a Long EZ for myself, but that obviously didn't happen.

Actually it is to give C. O. Jones some purpose in life. A crusade, if you will, that he apparantly gains some fulfillment from.

Red S,

Try one out and compare it to your 1/4 scale.............and is it true that R/C aircraft modeling hobby is a recreational activity??? My parkflyers and your planes flown in a safe manner are no threat to anyone. Of course I have to make sure I have 0 equipment failure. Remember, I put my "product" out in front for the public to view (gotta put on a good show), its not hidden behind a row of trees or located in no mans land. It kind of makes you wonder who is actually promoting R/C........... Mike

Anyway, would you rather be hit by a locomotive or a bicycle.

When compared to the average modeler, I agree! He is a singularity. I would place him in the same category as von Braun, Kelly Johnson, Curtis and others. Then there's the mass of engineers below them who make the big bosses ideas come to life and in many cases contribute much themselves. Where is the next generation of those guys coming from? Yes, they'll show up one way or another. At least some of them will. But wouldn't it be nice if: A - the best ones in the world continued to be Americans, B - the AMA had a hand in molding their interest and C - we had as many as we needed?

Ever considered hitching your wagon to the Civil Air Patrol? They promote aviation at a young age. It got me interested at a young age, got me rank when I joined the AF, lots more, good training. They may still have clout. Who knows they may become more important as time goes on with the current threat (they used to chase subs, etc in WW2.) Find a cadet, train it to fly and it may grow. It may even qualify as an RPV pilot when enlisting.

jim w1hrm

C.O.J>>Rutan is a singularity. He ain't us, and we ain't him. As a youngster, I

Actually my Sunday night mixed bowling league costs me $12.00....really $24.00 with my wife included.3 hook balls and one straight ball with drilling and inserts total $550.00, shoes $140.00, bag $150.00, miscellaneous equipment $60.00. Total cost of equipment = $900.00 Total cost to bowl a 32 week winter league at $24.00 = 768.00.....sactioning fee $13.00.............and have access to an incredible bowling establishment used by a bunch of great people with a common interest. Grand Total = $1681.00 to have hell of a good time.

GWS SS $30.00, Hitec Focus $90.00, charger $69.00, battery pack freebie, gear bag freebie, flying on private property ( work ) freebie, KFC meal to feed a family at a picnic at the local park $15.00 Total cost = $204.00...... and again meet and fly with a bunch of great people with a common interest, again to have a hell of a good time..............smile on

OBTW.......I did not trash the AMA...........nor do I trash them. I trash the people who trash me for not joining the AMA or a club. And as you said to Dave I will say to you........OK dumb s*it READ what I wrote and give it some thought Mike

...

That's about it in a nutshell. Maybe not so much the little leaguer, but maybe your neighbor practicing his nine iron with an untethered ball. We are after social acceptance at least to that level. The only way to get there is to make the public comfortable with our (more or less) guided projectiles. I'm not sure how to do that. Heck, even amongst ourselves, I'm not the only one seeking cover when a noob or (possibly) careless 3D'er strays too close to the pits. That little discrete shuffle to the other side of the picnic table is exactly what the nervous picnicker feels as he watches a park flyer. (Does he know what he's doing? Is my wine where it won't spill if I have to duck? Should I ask him to please do it somewhere else?)

In a reality test, we have to draw the line somewhere. I'll start by demarking the extremes; my own personal line falls somewhere in between. Rubberband balsa stick free-flyers are clearly on the acceptable side; even a bloody owie might draw parental ire but not civil action. On the other side, I think we readily agree a 1/3 scale monster is irresponsible and not appropriate for park flying, no matter how well it's flown. Even a twenty yard "near miss" will draw a lot of heat. What's your comfort level? with new flyers, possibly on their first few flights?

Anyway. I often take the leash off my lab on our evening walks around the neighborhood park, despite signs to the contrary. Some kids stop to greet and play with him; a few cringe visibly but manage to continue on with their other business; most just watch or ignore us with little interest or concern. It helps that he, all 80 gregarious lbs of him, has a ready smile and a wag, and heels promptly when called. That's what we're after with the public. They'll overlook muddy paw prints on their bright whites, sometimes still with a smile on their face. Contrast that to an unruly pitbull, straining against the short leash you have him on. Rightly or wrongly, they're nervous and don't want you near them.

I don't know if these are good or bad examples. All have some stigma attached, and we each have our own comfort levels. That's all I'm trying to say. Lacking regulation, and I dearly want to keep it that way, it comes down to how well our neighbors accept our behavior. Forget about what the AMA can or will do; the bulk of the work falls on us. The last thing we want to happen is for someone, whether the AMA or your village hall, to pen guidelines on what is which. It means partial grudging acceptance, not an open armed welcome, no matter how it reads on the first day.

I think you got my jist of what I was saying. I'm not going to dignify your rambling beyond this: as you said: "The extreme low end models don't even have servos at all -- just two motors and you can stop one or both of them. They generally fly like ass, but what do you expect for $40? The slightly better ones have servos and radios that can't be removed, but that doesn't really say anything about the quality of their components or lack thereof."

I know Radio Shack doesn't sell airplanes but the radio systems in their cars, etc. are of the same crap as you describe above.

What a stupid argument. You're not generally using the stuff around your household around other unsuspecting people! I don't care if you hurt YOURSELF. The air hogs could put an eye out too but they ain't goin very far so less danger. All I'm saying is that as an ADULT (you are one aren't you?) it is irresponsible to expose others to danger...in any way.

Sure! You can sue anyone you want but there's no guarantee you'll win.

Would you rather that you have to deal with NATIONAL issues to get a flying site? I believe it is better to do it at the local level with AMA support. There are just too many variables nationwide to do it at a national level. Look at how many different ways flying sites are now obtained. How would making it a national endeavor help?

In ANY way? The only way to NOT expose others to danger in ANY way is to not interact with anyone.

When you get in your car and turn that key YOU and ME are exposing people to danger. But since ME and YOU are responsible ADULTS we drive as safe as we can. Why dont you give people the benifit of the doubt???? I am sure that 99% of the educated micro to 1/4 scale R/C enthusiast AMA,UMA, non AMA or UMA understand the dangers. Anyway what proof do you have to show that you are a safe flyer and that you are not irresponsible??

Mike

tell this to the Jefco Aeromodelers in Colorado who's flying field is part of the state park. They have had this site for years and works great