REVIT OR ADT?

Which would you buy as an architectural designer doing plans for permit, mostly residential.?
Thanks.

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What's wrong with vanilla AutoCAD?
--


MichaelB
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Nothing is inherently wrong with vailla AutoCAD but the fact that its still vanilla AutoCAD.
Since Chief Architect was released commercially (many) CAD developers have "seen the light" so to speak and Object Oriented Programming has put the big D back into Design. Rather than "desiging" (little d) with lines and arcs and other primitive geometric entities to some extent ADT and without question Revit support designing with graphic representations of real world objects; walls, doors and so on which include metadata describing their properties. These virtual objects which support the use of metadata (data about data) can also contain business rules such as a 30 minute label on a door which code would not allow to be used where the designer placed it and Revit much more so than ADT will make it possible for software to let designers know their drawings are in conflict somehow.
Revit makes that latter design objective a pleasant reality freeing the designer like never before to actually Design instead of forcing his or her left side of their brain to be always thinking about which line type and command should be used when the right brain is trying to be thinking about actual design criteria such as which door type should be used.
Now to answer the actual question I haven't licensed Revit yet but I've conducted hands-on evaluation. I was an early adopter of OO-CAD and got into Chief Architect on day one using it to output preliminary design for residential design projects in less time than my coffee maker could brew a new pot of coffee. Really. I was also a reseller for awhile.
I've also known about and used Autoslime products since day one and we as customers no longer have the benefit of doing business with a vendor that is genuinely customer driven. Autoslime makes greate drafting software but the company is controlled by corporate slime who has crippled AutoCAD, ADT and Revit to obstruct, hinder or prevent the use with the web which is where all the progress is being made with regard to using CAD technologies in business.
A person can draw all they want with just about any program developed for the purpose but when you're in business to do so its in your best interest to use the most productive and most efficient tools to do so. That is less and less possible when using software sold by Autoslime no matter which of their products are used.
I know your a smart and talented individual Michael but your question reminds me of marginally dumb questions posed of what were4 experienced drafters wprking in offices decades ago "Why should we use plastic lead to draft when graphyte lead produces richer and crisper drawings?" Well, the answer when it was relevant to use plastic lead was the fact that plastic lead went directly to mylar eliminating a costly step of using vellum before going to sheet stock that was at the time the only drawing archival material which was presumed to outlast graphite drawings on vellum which were and are more susceptible to environmental degradation.
So Revit is somewhat like drawing on mylar with plastic lead. Its somewhat difficult for the heavh handed to get the feel of without snapping the lead whil drafting but is the best choice in the same way when we actually do something radical like actually thing about what is being postulated. Object Oriented CAD (OO-CAD_ is here and now, is most efficient, most productive and most economical. OO-CAD and is the future of CAD without question in the same way plastic lead proved it economic value in earlier eras of drafting and design. A gross simplification but one which effectively conveys the principle(s) which the postulation is comprised of.
Now, other issues are of great concern. Autoslime has forked their product line. The will continue to sell ADT and even make pithy "improvements" to keep customers locked into ADT for awhile. There will come the day when the economy of using Revit will over-shadow ADT to such an extent that the slimesters will orphan ADT and will stick it up the keaster of their customers who will be given a choice:
* Here's a ten dollar upgrade coupon to upgrade from ADT to Revit. * Upgrade to Revit or go f*uck yourself.
So I recommend to all who want to remain customers to choose Revit regardless of the fact that's exactly what Autoslime really wants as we are all in one way or another victims of the classic prisoner's dilemma which Autoslime excels at -- as do all politicians and most other corporate slime -- all of whom have established the prisoner's dilemma as the fundamental policy from which all other policy eminates.
A little reading about the prisoner's dilemma and understanding how it has become the fundamental policy of all corporate decision making is very insightful but perhaps too much for those who prefer the life of the sheep; just another farm animal to be herded and sheared for profit when the quarterly reports are published to the stock holders.
Too much time wasted on this issue this morning... toodle-oo
<%= Clinton Gallagher NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com / MAP 432'17"N 882'37"W : 432'17"N 882'37"W

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Thank you for the reply Clinton. I have tried Chief and sent it back. I had 2 pages of defects I could not get around with it and I can draw my permit packages in basic autocad faster than fixing all the problems with Chief. I was about to buy ADT when one reseller told me about Revit. I have to talk to 4 or 5 resellers to get the whole story. Most of them don't work with the product and don't know what is going on.

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Clinton's reply certainly was comprehensive. I have used ADT for years. I have wanted to use Revit for a long time now. The greatest percentage of my work is provided to other disciplines. All (except for 1 Microstation user) of the "associates" insist on dwg format. So, I have little say in the matter. If I most of my work was for in-house only, Revit would be my #1 choice.

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The OPs question was a very simple (naive?) one, and contained what I thought was an unnecessary limiting premise, hence my question.
I'm not shilling for anybody, just wondering why he framed the question the way that he did. His premise seemed to imply some significant unsuitablility of acad for the job. If that's the case, I'd like to hear why he thinks that.
Since we're talking about reminiscences, the OPs question reminds me of a barbaric dentist I saw when about 6 years old. He asked my what flavor of gas I wanted as he leaned over me with the mask, "Chocolate or vanilla?". My dad new me and had my arms pinned to the chair. I didn't want any gas. I wanted out of that office.
Both questions strike me as equally flawed.
MichaelB www.michaelbulatovich.ca
message > >> Nothing is inherently wrong with vailla AutoCAD but the fact that its >> still vanilla AutoCAD.
>> I know your a smart and talented individual Michael but your question >> reminds me of marginally dumb questions posed of what were4 experienced >> drafters wprking in offices decades ago "Why should we use plastic lead >> to draft when graphyte lead produces richer and crisper drawings?" Well, >> the answer ...
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I certainly did not intend to make it sound like your answers was incomplete or that Clinton's was better. I was just putting in my 2 cents worth regarding Revit. I make my living using Autocad and the major complaint I have about the program is it can do so much more than I have will ever find the time to learn. I liken it to the wonderful graphite tennis racquet I have. That racket is amazing but I can't play up the capabilities of an old wooden Dunlop still hanging in my garage.

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I was quoting *Clinton* only in my last post.

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And even Clinton wonders if anybody ever understanss his often self absorbed responses which can confuse even him when he returns to reply to what may be a response. ;-) but come next year when I am forced to upgrade ADT2004 or pay from scratch I will be buying into Revit. Those who are compelled to continue doing business with Autoslime and are in the AEC-CAFM markets will too. Its just a matter of time as Revit outpaces ADT.
<%= Clinton

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Adesk is currently pushing that product pretty hard. It makes me wonder if their profit forecast for the annual upgrades to the flagship product tells them that they have to switch ponies. Once acad became the de facto 'standard' cad app, they must have a few very good years. I wonder if there has been a steady decline in upgrades over the last decade. Anecdotally, I have noticed that in my business there is now a wider range of versions in everyday use than I can ever remember before. I regularly see everything from r14 to 2005. It used to be that *everyone* piled onto the new version without flinching.
The problem with parametric modeling for me is the required upfront work for an assembly. In cookie-cutter buildings this may be deemed an investment that will pay off, but in unique buildings with a variety of situations I wonder how much sense it makes. I'd bet many of us will still be drawing in 2d for quite some time to come.
--


MichaelB
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I would take a look at VisionRez/ADT combination. http://www.visionrez.com it comes as a "stand alone" version and as an add-on to AutoCAD ADT, if you already own it. http://visionrez.com/versions.php stand alone version costs about $2,500.00
It was made especially for residential construction plans, but can also do light commercial construction plans.
*plo* said the following:

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