Hello all, I'm new around here and I've been interested in smithing for a
long time, however, I've never been able to find any information on the
web about smithing, and my budget is currently nill for going out and
finding books, or paying for a college corse in smithing. So I'd like to
ask for some advice and direction, specifically about swordsmithing, as
its a hobby I've been interested in for a long time. I know its not an
incredably useful talent, but its what I'd like to smith all the same.
Swordsmithing is what you start doing AFTER you have learned all the
rest of blacksmithing, including a lot about non-ferrous metalworking.
If swordwmithing was likened to a 4 year college course, The first
3.8 years would be as I described above and the last .2 years would be
all you'd ge on swordsmithing. Then you'd be good enough to go to a
swordsmith's shop and ask for a job sweeping up.
I guess what I'm telling you is that swordsmithing will take a lot of
time to learn and a lot of dedication on your part.
I just googled "swordsmith" and got 61,400 hits.
You may want to start at anvilfire.com for some good blacksmithing info.
Here's where I suggest you start:
New folks should visit the ABANA website so they can look up their
closest affiliate (chapter).
Personally, I am happy to answer a new person whenever I can help,
but let me say this again:
The VERY BEST way to get questions about blacksmithing answered is to
get into a group that does what you want to do. There are over 60
"clubs" around the USA and Canada organized primarily to educate folks
about blacksmithing. ABANA, the Artist Blacksmith Association of North
America at www.abana.org, has a list of the whereabouts of most of them.
These clubs have various meeting schedules and conferences. The
members range from "never lit a fire" to real professionals. Many have
education programs. All of them welcome and look forward to meeting new
members. Many of the members have been upgrading their equipment and
therefore have things to sell, trade, etc..
Many of the groups also have newsletters containing "how-to"
articles. For instance, our group, The Guild of Metalsmiths, has an
index of about 750 how-to articles from our newsletter!
Some other countries have similar organizations.
So, to the folks who are new to blacksmithing: Find your closest
ABANA affiliate, check out their website if they have one, and join the
group. Get to a few meetings and introduce yourself. Tell folks about
your interests and go from there.
Finally, when you post a message with a question in it: Tell us in
general where you live like "west central Wisconsin" (me). Who knows---
you may live a mile from me or some other person who can help.
Pete Stanaitis
------------------------------
BigHammerBoy wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 19:19:52 +0100, "BigHammerBoy"
I've not met a smith (who wasn't a bladesmith) who knew anything about
swords. No matter how well you can forge weld, you also need to know
enough about their history and use to understand how to shape and
balance it so that someone can actually swing it. Nor are there just
"swords" - there are dozens of local traditions, all with their own
style of use and shape.
If you haven't already read Hrisoulas, Kapp and a bunch of other books,
you haven't been looking.
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:19:46 +0000, Andy Dingley > wrote:
Hrisoulas used to participate in this group. Last post I see on Google
was about five years ago, but pretty sure he lurked here later than
that. I once received an email reply from him because he thought I was
*the* Bill Bagwell. (A somewhat well known knife maker.)
In response to Andy Dingley, Like I said, I don't have the budget to go out
looking for books on amazon or barns and noble, nor can I even afford a
bloody membership for the library, -_-
As for the use of a sword, pal I've been training with the katana since I
was 4 years old. I know how to use a sword, I know what to use it for, but
I don't know how to craft them. Its a subject I've been interested in, but
found little information on. I can certainly google swordsmithing, and get
a crap load of hits, but nothing I've found has actually told me how to
make a sword, what materials to use, how specifically I should fold the
steel or w/e else is entailed.
Thanks for the book refferences though, maybe when I have some cash I'll
go out and hunt for them.
I've also been using swords, allthough not since I was four. My interests
lie in blade/swordsmithing too. I do believe though that the point is that
you need to learn how metal reacts under heat and hammer before you attempt
to make a sword. Bladesmithing is the pinnacle of the smithy trade and to
get there takes years of practice. I expect the first 50 blades I make will
be complete flops in one area or another. Ie, the temper is not right, or it
is too hard and brittle, or too soft... this kind of thing...
As for the use of the swords you wish to make, it would be wise to research
on google or whatever the specific methods involved in making that
particular style of sword. Some swords are folded over and over such as the
Samurai swords (whereas katana are not as far as my history of ninjas go).
A good search on google for Damascus Swords and Daggers will yield a few
nice results. I had a bunch of these bookmarked but lost them all in a
recent PC crash so I can't point you in any more specific direction, my
apologies.
Good luck :)
Are there libraries in Canada? In most libraries down here you can
usually get inter-library loans of books not available locally.
I won't tell you to slow down and follow the paths others have
suggested because too many successful men and women have decided to
follow the untraveled path and been successful. Take your own road;
you can always change paths later if you don't blind yourself to other
viewpoints.
Good luck to you.
dennis
in nca
If you cannot afford a library card... ( WTF is with that, all I have
ever needed to get a library card is ID that said I lived in the
library's area).
Perhaps the next question is along the lines of "What color rocks work
best as hammers?" or some such.
Talk about trying to do it the hard way.
If you want to find information about the stuff, you'll have to get a
bit more specific in your websearches. Wanna build Japanese? Traditional
methodology? Modern? Do you want to build European? Some other
ethnicity? Theres lots of good info out there and probably twice as much
bad, if not more. Setting up shop ain't gonna be cheap, either.
Best book that I have personally read on Japanese swordsmithing
techniques was The Craft of The Japanese Sword
(Amazon.com product link shortened)(3155
Covers in good detail the entire process of the current state of the
traditional art, including the mining and refining of the ore, the
smelting process, the traditional forge, and the many other tradesmen
that worked on the sword after the smith got done with his small part in
making a complete sword. It also covers such things as the politics and
restrictions facing Japanese swordsmiths and how they effectively kept a
stranglehold on the ability of new smiths to come onto the scene and
make a living, regardless of talent. But that's an aside to the info
there.
Lot's of luck! Look's like you'll need it all.
Cheers
Trevor Jones
How to make a sword...
Method 1) stock removal. Go the the spring shop and get some steel. Grind away
everything that doesn't look like a sword. Go back to the spring shop and have
them run the sword through a heat treatment cycle.
Method 2) the Traditional method. Sift beach sand with a lodestone to seperate
the black grains. When you have about twenty pounds of black sand, go to the
smelter and reduce it into a raw iron bloom. (see 'Iron from Stone 101' for
details) Start folding the iron billet while adding carbon from finely ground
charcoal or rice straw rubbed across the heated surface. Do this for a while,
usually ten to twenty folds. Draw the billet out into a sword. Allow to cool
and send to the shaping bench for final shaping by stock removal. After the
final profile is set, mix up the mask clay and apply to the blade spine and
flanks, leaving the edge exposed. Heat to quench temperature and quench in
water to harden. Polish the finished blade and assemble.
Tools needed: forge, hammers, anvils, grinders, a couple hundred pounds of coal
or a big natural gas line, a thousand hours of hand labor in very hot
conditions.
Nothing to it...
Charly
"Charly the Bastard" wrote in message
How to make a sword...
Method 1) stock removal. Go to the spring shop and get some steel. Grind
away
everything that doesn't look like a sword. Go back to the spring shop and
have
them run the sword through a heat treatment cycle.
Method 2) the Traditional method. Sift beach sand with a lodestone to
separate
the black grains. When you have about twenty pounds of black sand, go to
the
smelter and reduce it into a raw iron bloom. (See 'Iron from Stone 101' for
details) Start folding the iron billet while adding carbon from finely
ground
charcoal or rice straw rubbed across the heated surface. Do this for a
while,
usually ten to twenty folds. Draw the billet out into a sword. Allow to
cool
and send to the shaping bench for final shaping by stock removal. After the
final profile is set, mix up the mask clay and apply to the blade spine and
flanks, leaving the edge exposed. Heat to quench temperature and quench in
water to harden. Polish the finished blade and assemble.
Tools needed: forge, hammers, anvils, grinders, a couple hundred pounds of
coal
or a big natural gas line, a thousand hours of hand labor in very hot
conditions.
Nothing to it...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wow, I never knew it was that simple to make swords. What on earth have I
been waiting for? LOL
Rodney
Sword making 101
Quick and dirty stock removal
·Buy a particulate mask, leather gloves hearing protection and eye
protection so that your lungs, fingers, ears and eyes function the same
when you are done
·Get a leaf spring from a car or truck auto wrecker
·Spring it straight
·Borrow a grinder and lots of stones
·Grind it to the out side profile of the sword making sure you
don't cause the metal to start changing colors (removes temper)
·Draw lines down the center and sides to act as guides for grinding
·Grind the bevels making sure you don't cause the metal to start
changing colors or cause uneven stock removal
·Decide on the edge profile
·Hand hone to sharp
·Mount the bolster
·Drill, mount. shape and rivet the handle
·Wrap the handle with cord or wire for better grip
Understand the whole process will take many hours of hard work. See
what other people are doing. If you are serous about it The Complete
Bladesmith by Jim Hrisoulas ISBN 0873644301 is an excellent resource
last I heard they don't charge you to sit in libraries. If you local
library doesn't carry a copy sweet talk your librarian most of them
are amazingly helpful people but they need to be asked. Sit down take
lots of paper and make notes. Barring that get a friend with library a
membership to borrow it for you. Make sure the library gets it back
because I might need it next time. Here are some websites to get you
started
http://www.scnf.org/forge.html
http://swordforum.com /
http://www.vikingmetalworks.com/dammake.html
http://www.knifenetwork.com/workshop/index.shtml
http://www.atar.com/index.php?&MMN_position=1:1
Just a quick comment on safety -- be very careful about wearing gloves
while using any power equipment. Especailly grinders or anything with a
wire wheel. You can easily get you fingers and/or hand mangled beyond
use if your gloves get caught up in anything. You might get a bad cut
without gloves, but it's far better than a mangled hand.
While we're on the subject of gloves, you might want to get a glove for
your left hand while blacksmithing. A regular welding glove will work
fine, but a kevlar glove is a little better. It just helps keep you
from burning your hand if the tongs get too hot, and give you a little
margin for error when handling hot stuff. (I dip my glove in water and
touch the metal to see if it's hot. If it is, the water sizzles or
steams away pretty quickly.)
Make sure you follow all the other safety advice... tie back long hair,
no rings or other jewlrey, etc... If you don't know about basic shop
safety, get a shop book from the library and spend some time reading.
Maybe try searching for "safety" or "accident" on
rec.crafts.metalworking, and sci.engr.joining.welding. Be careful when
heating anything galvanized -- the fumes can make you sick/kill you.
Actually, it is that easy. It helps to have some equipment though. I learned to
hammer weld by watching someone do it once. The learning process took all of
five minutes. I've been refining the technique for fifteen years, but the
learning was a snap. If you have normal color vision in the red/yellow range and
can consistently hit a postage stamp size target with a hammer, you can be
welding in twenty minutes. It's all about temperature equals color, and when to
take it out and hit it and when to put it back in the fire. The best way to
learn this is to watch someone do it, live. TV doesn't really impart the subtle
differences on the screen, probably something to do with the auto-iris in the
camera. Equipment can be damn cheap, sepending on how good a scrounge you are
and how handy with tools you are.
Happy whacking...
Charly
"Charly the Bastard" wrote
<snip>Actually, it is that easy. It helps to have some equipment though.
<snip> Happy whacking...
Charly</snip>
I was actually being sarcastic about how simple it is to make a sword
without any blacksmithing experience, as BigHammerBoy is hoping it to be.
Sorry for any confusion.
Rodney
No confusion here. It really is easy. If it wasn't, then we'd still be using
rocks and clubs like our ancestors. I can take a crowbar and beat out a
servicable sword in twenty minutes. It won't be pretty, but it will be
lethal. Pretty takes a little more finishing work, that's all. But given the
armament of the opforces, the tactical usefulness of a sword against
laser-guided 2000 pound bombs and supersonic aircraft is somewhat
questionable, and we've seen that our government is perfectly willing to use
these munitions on anyone that disagrees with them. Waco springs to mind on
this account.
This device monitored by NSA
Charly
Actaully, I do not expect making a sword to be easy. I expect it to be so
hard, that it'll take me months how to figure out how to do properly,
without considering the body strength and skill I'll have to build up to
hammer the steel into a passable weapon. I never expected this to be easy,
and I don't want it to be easy, if it was easy, it'd take all the mystery
out of how the japanese made such incredable weapons, and it wouldn't be
interesting anymore. I'd rather have months of frustration and a final
satisfaction, than have a day or two worth of work and get bored with the
whole process in a few weeks.
boring.
Mmmm, especially since I intend to mine, refine, and shape the ore using
my own muscles instead of machines.
I am gonna buy the coal though. -_- Ouch, my wallet! *tries to get a job*
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