Fadal C axis error

Awl --
It says error #8, #10, indicating magnet, encoder problems, motor overload. It makes lots of funny noise at low speeds, quiets at higher speeds, the
noise started a cupla days ago, until the error codes starting showing up.
At times, almost sounds like bearings are being crunched, but everything turns nice and smooth, by hand. Seems like it's getting a wrong "signal", and is herking and jerking. Has rigid tap.
Idears?
--
EA



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overload.
Your magnet is located on the spindle drive pulley, it is pressed in and held with epoxy, the sensor is screwed into the orientation bridge--sometimes the magnet comes loose and collides with the sensor so you want to at least give it a visual check.
To check signal, use DI DO command and slowly turn the spindle by hand, watching for the bit to change from zero to one as the magnet passes by the sensor.
You can probably swap sensor with the one that's used on the atc arm but i would suggest just buy a new one and if it doesn;t fix your problem then keep the old one as a spare.
Also, some firmware versions support "ignore magnet" command--to ise, code m3.1 instead of m3 when you turn on the spindle.
The spindle encoder is relatively cheap to replace--it sits on top of the motor, coupled onto the motor shaft underneath the fan housing--since you have rigid tapping, it can be tested by following the directions that you'll find here:
http://www.fadalvmcparts.com/service-encoder.html
Another common failure point is the wye/delta relay contacts will go bad--you can force the machine to stay in low range by removing the fuse F30 in which case the machine will still run just fine all the way up to full rpm but it will be severely lacking in horsepower when run at the higher speeds.
Pretty sure that if you have a belt change type of machine then can force high gear in a similar manner by removing one of the other fuses, but if you want to try that, you're on your own.

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The cnc controller does not care about the encoder unless you are actually in tapping mode--however, a properly functioning encoder is imperative for the vector drive itself to function correctly unless you have the ability to re-set it to open loop ( frequency mode )
For that reason, it's generally advisable to first try replacing the encoder BEFORE ru$hing out and buying a new or rebuilt drive unit.
Good luck.
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Your magnet is located on the spindle drive pulley, it is pressed in and held with epoxy, the sensor is screwed into the orientation bridge--sometimes the magnet comes loose and collides with the sensor so you want to at least give it a visual check.
To check signal, use DI DO command and slowly turn the spindle by hand, watching for the bit to change from zero to one as the magnet passes by the sensor.
You can probably swap sensor with the one that's used on the atc arm but i would suggest just buy a new one and if it doesn;t fix your problem then keep the old one as a spare.
Also, some firmware versions support "ignore magnet" command--to ise, code m3.1 instead of m3 when you turn on the spindle.
The spindle encoder is relatively cheap to replace--it sits on top of the motor, coupled onto the motor shaft underneath the fan housing--since you have rigid tapping, it can be tested by following the directions that you'll find here:
http://www.fadalvmcparts.com/service-encoder.html
====================================================================== This may be the cause. Here's what happened.
My buddy is running the machine, observed that the machine is making noise at low rpm, but not at high. Indeed, at low rpm, it sounded like the bearings were destroyed, but at higher rpm (1700) it was almost perfectly smooth.
Then I noticed the fan housing screws were missing, thought the fan was rubbing on something. So I popped off the fan, noticed the grill was quite clogged, started cleaning it off, and of course debris was falling on top of the motor, which I thought was sealed. Vacuumed up as much as I could, put shit back together, and holy shit, error codes all over the place.
So I musta *really accelerated* a bad situation! Can I clean the encoder? That motor is big, can I just take off the top to get to the encoder?
I'll get on this, and your other advice in the a.m.... really beat, fatigued now.
--
EA





Another common failure point is the wye/delta relay contacts will go
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Suggest double check to make damned sure that your encoder cable is securely attached and that it hasn't gotten into some kind of altercation with the fan or housing.

yes and yes.
The encoder is probably already sealed fairly well though, typically with a large glob of silicone caulk at the cable terminal bulkhead.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=heds+encoder+kit&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41642243,d.cGE&biw 54&bihd1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=KHMHUcHbHsnxiQKejoGIBQ
If you replace it with other than a Fadal direct replacement unit, (for instance one from US DIGITAL) then you'll have to desolder it from the board that the cable attatches to, it can be done by using several sets of pliars after heating it on an electric range element set to high--careful though, they're pretty easy to fuckup.
Or you can take it to your local television repair shop, oftentines the tech are thankful for the opportunity to be doing something a tad out of the ordinary.

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https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=heds+encoder+kit&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41642243,d.cGE&biw 54&bihd1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=KHMHUcHbHsnxiQKejoGIBQ

The problem has gotten worse. Now the motor just buzzes.
I'm going to direct connect the motor to 3 ph, at least rule that out. If that's OK, I'll proceed. The encoder seems to be somewhat OK, I get 0's and 1's from the diagnositic screen, but not with total regularity.
What does that cam follower do, on the spindle itself? Is it supposed to be engaged? When does that activating piston engage?
--
EA


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it engages to lock the spindle in oriented position during tool change or when a m19 is commanded
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I hard-wired the motor today, motor runs, ruling that out. Hard to imagine that as a problem anyway, as the machine really has low hours, is babied.
Spoke to the ITS/fadal people in your link. At worst, a new spindle drive will be $2900. They highly recommend my local former-fadal service guy as well, so I may use this as an opportunity to take care of a bunch of tihngs.
Tomorrow I'll unbolt the spindle drive, mebbe just visual check the innards, kick it a little, see whazzup.
--
EA




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If it is a wye/delta machine then make sure the set of contactors immediately to the right of the inverter are not burnt or chattering--if you have a low leg on your 3 phase mains ot can cause the relay to not pull in solidly enough.
There is an inverter re-builder in the seattle area that folks seem to be happy with, usual cost is about a grand-I'll have to get you their name tomorrow from the shop.
I did not have time for a rebuild so ended up I bought new from "vmc electric" instead, they have the baldor h2 series in stock, pre-programmed for the most part....Ask for a discount, it might save you a few hundred bucks.
--the co-owner / chief tech name at vmc electric is Dave Decaussin who is the son of one of the original founders of fadal--great guy, really knows his shit and is just a pleasure to speak with.
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Practec LLC 17625 NE 65th Street # 125 Redmond, WA 98052 P: 425-881-8202 F: 425-881-5209
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Practec LLC 17625 NE 65th Street # 125 Redmond, WA 98052 P: 425-881-8202 F: 425-881-5209 ================================================ Yeah, they were mentioned on PM, thanks for the contact info.
I have a cupla options. Fadals are being serviced by a highly regarded independent tech, recommended by the guys at your ITS/VMC. In fact, we were texting each other steadily from 7 pm 'til 9pm, which I thought was super-gracious. But, he's booked for two solid weeks!!!!! And doesn't come to NY that much.....
He says the consistency of my C-axis error #10 strongly indicates an encoder problem -- even tho when I turn the motor, the rpm actually registers on the lcd screen of the Baldor drive!!! Which would seem to indicate that the encoder is working, right? But maybe it's doing sumpn else that's bad, as well.
But there's TWO encoders, right? One on the spindle (the Hall sensor), and one on the motor itself? What's the diff??
Took the motor encoder out, it SEEMS ok, but the optics of that thing are proly subtle, dicey. But like I said, it IS sending rpm values back to the baldor drive. WTF???
So I'm going to try to pick up the ENC-0007 tomorrow in NJ, or have the ITS people express mail it. This tech says the encoder can be tested, but not by diy-ers, that it's most expedient for a diy-er to just swap it out.
If dat dudn't work, I have a spindle drive place in NJ (Electronic DRives and Controls) that I can drop the spindle drive off at.
The new Baldor H2 spindle drives are supposedly the cat's meow, backward compatible, at about $2500.... could be worse. If dats the problem....
Those delta-wye relays seem to be clicking in.
And so it goes..... I guess I'll be cleaning, organizing the shop for a while..... :(
--
EA






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