How Does Haas Make This Claim And Get Away With It?

See the Jon Banquer blog for details:
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA http://jonbanquer.blogspot.com /

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
See the Jon Banquer blog for details:
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA http://jonbanquer.blogspot.com /
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

OK I'll bite, New or old cutter? Whose brand of cutter? Coolant type?
I typically run a 3 flute niagra, uncoated at 50 - 60 ipm at .250 DOC without any trouble at all. However, if your problem persists, try 5500 rpm, drop down into the torque curve a little bit and see what happens!
Experience doesnt come out of a box, or from a video, it comes from staying in the trench and learning how to dig the hole, not complaining about the shovel.
"D"
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
See the Jon Banquer blog for details:
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA http://jonbanquer.blogspot.com /
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
See the Jon Banquer blog for details:
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA http://jonbanquer.blogspot.com /
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:47:39 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@msn.com wrote:

Age is not an issue in Jon's shop. Correct question: How many times was it dropped through the carousel?

Just a guess but maybe having a machine where the automatic oiler gage ALWAYS reading zero, tools randomly fall through the carousel as well as the tools BANGING out of the spindle for years without being addressed is an indication of other long ignored maintenance issues......
Maybe the correct question isn't how come the machine can't make a cut but should be; How in the hell did this machine last as long as it has? Should have seized up long ago.........LOL
A good advertisement;
Built tough as a rock to withstand those dumber than a rocks!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

OK I'll bite, New or old cutter? Whose brand of cutter? Coolant type?
I typically run a 3 flute niagra, uncoated at 50 - 60 ipm at .250 DOC without any trouble at all. However, if your problem persists, try 5500 rpm, drop down into the torque curve a little bit and see what happens!
Experience doesnt come out of a box, or from a video, it comes from staying in the trench and learning how to dig the hole, not complaining about the shovel.
===================================And jb cain't even remember what box he's read -- or who read it to him.
This was an interesting thread over the summer. Forgot the details (Bottle??), but it seemed simply that Haas rates their motors like Sears does (effing locked-rotor current), thus rendering them underpowered, with funny torque curves.
iirc, the upshot of that thread was that the net hp of that haas machine was proly around 1 hp! Altho other inneresting points may have been raised -- not by jb, of course.
No surprise, I run my fadal like a scared sissy, but you really have to work to get my bitty 3016L off the 30% power mark, and chips are really flyin even then. At 50%, watch out. I can't remember ever getting it over 50-60%.
I'm told jb recycled the job-hopping thread as well, altho the article he cites (the link is in my response) is an inneresting saga of an entreepreeneerial matchining effort -- if true.
--

Mr. PV'd

Mae West (yer fav Congressman) to the Gangster (yer fav Lobbyist):
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Proctologically Violated wrote:

PV:
    The Haas Mini Mill is rated at 33 ft/lb. @ 1200 RPM.
    http://www.haascnc.com/VMC_specs.asp?ID9#VMCTreeModel
rpm x T     HP = ------ 5252
    That comes out to: (1200 X 33)/5252 or 7.539 HP
    That's of course at 1200 RPM, for any HP calculations at a higher RPM someone would need to get a torque graph/chart from Haas.         But it's reasonable to assume that the torque amount starts to drop precipitously above 1200 RPM.
--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Rated at what duty cycle? Is that number peak torque? 30 seconds? 5 minutes? Continuous?
Plus there is the parasitic drag of belts, bearings, and anything else in the drivetrain between the motor and the tool.
Then there is the issue of the maximum chip section the spindle can cut before it starts chattering which has nothing to do with horsepower.
--

Dan

CNC Videos - <http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Dan,
This is the SAME machine Jon Bonkers said: http://tinyurl.com/5hjnmp
    He doesn't do operator checks even though he says he programs, sets up and operates the machine.
    The Spindle runs hot (for years).
    The Tools BANG out of the spindle (for years).
    The Tools randomly Bang out of the spindle and shoot through the carousel (for years).
    The Automatic Oiler Gage that is supposed to read 17# always reads ZERO (probably around the time the spindle began running hot, tools started banging out of spindle and randomly fall through carousel and into the machine).
[

Do you mean the gage above the way lube reservoir?
If so it's at zero on both machines and stays at zero even during a tool change.
Jon Banquer
] http://tinyurl.com/6ghdgb
Oil gage on the machine Jon is running ALWAYS READS ZERO, what does Jon Banquer say?
[ Helpful post as I only have a casual interest and don't intend to make much of an effort in this area anytime soon.
When I get some time I might look into it more. It's not a high priority for me or for our shop and it's not part of what the company I work for expects from me.
] http://tinyurl.com/6k4s9c
So what is your job Jon?
[ We all program our own parts, setup and run them.
Jon Banquer ] http://tinyurl.com/5t9gjy
So by your own words you Program, Setup and RUN. RUN is the same as OPERATE which means OPERATOR. This means you should be performing OPERATOR CHECKS on the machinery you run. ONE of those checks according to the Haas manual is to check that oil gage. After months of running the machine you don't even know what gage to check the only one you see always reads ZERO.
[ Mill Spindle Pressure
The spindles on Haas mills are pressurized to facilitate the flow of lubrication to the bearings. This positive pressure also helps keep chips and coolant from entering the internal spindle taper.
Check the air pressure each week; the regulator is located at the back of the machine on the air/lube panel. <should read 17#>
<snip>
The inline filter is located inside the reservoir and should be changed each year, or every 2000 hours of machine cycle time.
] http://www.cncmagazine.com/vol_9thru12/v9i32/v9i32d-maint.asp
Real question is why in the hell hasn't this machine seized up long ago!
Tom
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
D Murphy wrote:

Dan:
    For answers to those questions you'd probably have to call Haas tech support/applications. Haas is not very forthcoming on their web-site on just how their power ratings are determined.     I've heard that that they rate some of their machines at 200% load for 30 seconds. But I have no idea if that's true or not.

    AFAIK, the Haas Mini-Mills don't have belts or a gear train in their spindles.

    Virtually everyone knows that Haas' and Fadals are light duty machines, and the 7.5 HP Mini-Mills are among the lightest of the light. I suppose the Office Mills are even LIGHTER duty yet.     Having max torque be at 1200 RPM on the 7.5 HP Mini was probably a design feature intended to enable the machine to cut steel.
--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote in

I run into this myself from time to time when a competitor claims some high horsepower number more often than not it's at some very short duty cycle. Given that 7-1/2 horsepower is something of a "standard" motor size for a 5 horsepower continuous 7-1/2 30 minute duty rating, I would guess that probably is the motor size. Without any help from gearing or other speed reduction, it would be a fairly weak spindle with only 5 ponies on tap. Then there is the issue of how it's wound and how it's driven. If it's a simple inverter driven four pole motor it would be very weak indeed. A more sophisticated motor/drive can provide a very flat torque curve throughout much of the range.

The spindle bearings still create a drag on power. You can count them up and estimate the loss. Plus like I said a small motor with no reduction to multiply the torque will be weak.

Probably, and probably meant for drilling/tapping in that range rather than say hogging with a face mill.
--

Dan

CNC Videos - <http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Barnard Rubble... kicked me to the curb where I belong yet again.
Barnard Rubble joins the likes of James Meyette, Tom Brewer, Joe 788, John Carroll, Pete Logghe, and recently Bottlebob who prove on a constant basis how superior they are to me.
Only a complete genius like Barnard Rubble would try to belittle me with his superior knowledge over me and succeed time and time again.
Barnard Rubble has tried to post comments to my blog and I can't "publish" them because it would show how superior he is compared to me.
Barnard Rubble has gotten others to see what an idiot I am and now they won't post comments on my blogs.
Barnard Rubble got my blog removed and I don't know how he did it.
Barnard Rubble has contributed more to alt.machines.cnc and comp.cad.solidworks than me because his skills are far superior to mine.
Barnard Rubble has been quoted by fellow geniuses like James Meyette and Matt Lombard and I'm jealous.
For over ten years Ive shown that Barnard Rubble is superior to me everytime I post.
When they come as stupid as me, its not really hard work to show how dumb and stupid I am on a constant basis.
Jon Banquer...aka...Larry Loser
BridgeHermit, Ca
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
See the Jon Banquer blog for details:
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA http://jonbanquer.blogspot.com /
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
See the Jon Banquer blog for details:
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA http://jonbanquer.blogspot.com /
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
See the Jon Banquer blog for comment and response.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA http://jonbanquer.blogspot.com /
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Barnard Rubble... kicked me to the curb where I belong yet again.
Barnard Rubble joins the likes of James Meyette, Tom Brewer, Joe 788, John Carroll, Pete Logghe, and recently Bottlebob who prove on a constant basis how superior they are to me.
Only a complete genius like Barnard Rubble would try to belittle me with his superior knowledge over me and succeed time and time again.
Barnard Rubble has tried to post comments to my blog and I can't "publish" them because it would show how superior he is compared to me.
Barnard Rubble has gotten others to see what an idiot I am and now they won't post comments on my blogs.
Barnard Rubble got my blog removed and I don't know how he did it.
Barnard Rubble has contributed more to alt.machines.cnc and comp.cad.solidworks than me because his skills are far superior to mine.
Barnard Rubble has been quoted by fellow geniuses like James Meyette and Matt Lombard and I'm jealous.
For over ten years Ive shown that Barnard Rubble is superior to me everytime I post.
When they come as stupid as me, its not really hard work toshow how dumb and stupid I am on a constant basis.
Jon Banquer...aka...Larry Loser
BridgeHermit, Ca
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
See the Jon Banquer blog for comment and response.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA http://jonbanquer.blogspot.com /
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
See the Jon Banquer blog for comment and response.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA http://jonbanquer.blogspot.com /
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
See the Jon Banquer blog for comment and response.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA http://jonbanquer.blogspot.com /
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.