OT - Any Bearing Experts (Thrust Problem)

Too_Many_Tools wrote: > > What to get education for...well that is a good question. > > I have had a number of young adults discuss that very question with
> me over the last year. > > What would you suggest? > > Remember that the companies are offshoring jobs faster than they are > being created...and that has been happening for most of Bush's time. > > No one makes an investment...including an education ...without some > assurance that the employment will be there after they have made the > money and time investment. > > I have read a number of articles of companies whining about the lack > of qualified workers..and those same companies are exporting jobs and > importing H1-B visa workers. > > What the companies *mean* is that there are no American workers > willing to work for 3rd World wages. > > That needs to change if you want people to invest in education.
What to get an education for? For the very good reason that you don't know, and can't know, what you'll need to know in the future.
Please note that Ed and I both used the word "education". Not job training. That's a whole different thing, and usually so short-sighted that it contributes to our problems, rather than helping to solve them.
Education isn't about the things you learn as much as it's about the inescapable need for learning, and the most fundamental skills that all future (life-long) learning requires.
When I was in high school (a good school, btw; and I was a pretty good student) I learned how to use a computer. First, you power up the teletype. Then you dial the appropriate phone number, and place the phone's handset into the modem cups. Then you carefully thread your paper program tape into the teletypes's reader. And so on. I also learned how to use a slide-rule, and how to change the font-ball on an IBM Selectric typewriter.
When I was in college, I learned about the glorious future of nuclear energy, and how the world would soon be filled with clean, safe, non-polluting reactors that would provide as much as 90% of our total energy needs.
When I was in college the second time, I learned a lot about drafting, the difference between paper drawings and mylars, blueprint machines and Diazo's, and like that.
When I got my first job in a machine shop, I learned how to run a W&S turret lathe, and why it was so important to put white lead on the (dead) center when using an OD grinder.
Those things were "skills" of the kind that job training includes. Today, long before my working life is over, every one of those things is useless. People are probably reading this right now and shaking their heads about how impossibly old and obsolete I must be.
But I also got an education. I learned how to read. That's a skill, of course; but it's also much more. Once I learned that most basic, most fundamental thing, even in its simplest form, I had immediate access to every single idea, opinion, fact, or communicable skill, that had ever been put on paper, or would ever be put on a microfilm, a floppy disc, a hard drive, a CD, a DVD, or a flash drive, or whatever.
I learned some rudimentary science, which didn't mean I could build a spacecraft or cure cancer. But it gave me the start I needed in terms of discipline, methodology, and thought processes, which are the root of the kinds of science that DOES build spacecraft and cure terrible diseases.
I learned arithmetic, and just enough of other kinds of math - algebra, geometry, trigonometry, statistics - that I understood there was more to learn, and was equipped to learn it, and could know how and why math is so important in so many parts of a technological world.
I learned about history, and literature, and philosophy, which meant that I had a basic grasp of how other people have lived and thought, and how those things go together, and how I was a part of something huge and ongoing.
And I learned how to learn.
After that, learning how to sharpen a drill bit, or run a CNC machine, or write software for a Windows computer, were all within my capacity. If I'd learned only skills, I'd be helpless.
Education comes first, in its most basic forms. After that, an educated indiviual can make his/her own choices about what to learn, what job or career to pursue, and how to invest time and energy wisely. Without an education, or with only job skills, the world is a very cruel and rapidly changing place.
Human children need to get an education for the same reason baby birds need to learn how to fly, or baby tigers need to learn how to hunt - even if they don't know where they're flying to, or what prey they might encounter. It's a matter of survival.
KG
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That's a keeper. It should go on a schoolhouse wall somewhere. Or in a letter to parents who send their kids to college to learn a job skill.
-- Ed Huntress
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wrote:

You learned how to learn..and how to look up the answers to questions you had. And you took an interest in things besides the Glass Teat, and your own immediate needs.
Kids are not..not taught how to learn, or to look up stuff, or to even balance a checkbook.
They come out of school incredibly self centered, butt ignorant and provincially self centered and short sighted.
The self centered and short sighted can be atributed to being kids...but the rest ...should have been taught at an early age.
A perfect example is the growth of Rent To Own stores. Anyone with half a functioning brain knows they are a rip off of the worst kind..yet they prosper and branch out.
A young friend recently needed a washing machine. I told him Id help fix his old one, or help him find a decent used one. Nope..had to have a new one. Rent To Own.
The other day he called me up, depressed, told me he cant afford his new washer. I laughed at him. Now he is going to have a repo on his credit history. And have to buy a good used washer. Which I already found him for less than one months rent to own.
Part of the economic problem we have today..is because far too many people are utterly ignorant of money. They dont need to be brokers..but the ability to balance a statement at the end of the month is critically important.
But...I suspect folks are going to get really well educated in the next couple years..because easy credit is going to go Phiftt! and with less disposable income...they are going to have to live within their means...or become homeless.
Expect to see a rise in drug use, and boozers in the next couple years, and an BIG increase in crime rates.
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I skipped the meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
in rec.crafts.metalworking :

    How can they afford the booze, if the money is tight?
    Oh, that's right "Shut up and drink your beer, kid, we're too poor to buy milk."
    I just wish I had some bad habits I could quit and save the money.
pyotr -- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
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Good post, Kirk - and not a single word too long <g>
My first boss used an indexing head as an example of the importance of what to learn: You can try to learn and memorize all the different settings and hole discs, or how to look them up in a book - but if you understand the principle behind the indexing head, you can work it out for yourself *if* your basic math skills are there to begin with.
--

-JN-

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JN: I worked with a pair of very experienced helicopter mechanics on the balancing and tracking of a Bell Jet Ranger Helicopter. They were using the wrong polar chart. They were so used to using the polar chart in a rote way that they wasted 2hrs getting confused and screwing up the helicopter. They were only capable when they got the right chart. I own an experimental helicopter that came without a chart. I had to learn the physics of the tracking and balancing game and now find it relatively easy to balance my rotor system. My understanding is useful on other helicopters that have no charts already made up. Your first boss was dead right. It always pays to understand what you are doing and not just act like a robot. Stu
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wrote in message

I didn't want to snip all that great stuff, but the last two paragraphs will do for a response: I disagree. I think we are up to it.
It will be very painful and there will be plenty of stops and starts, misdirections and corrections, but I think the whole financial system's fragility is recognized now and it gradually is being understood for what it is -- a house of cards. And we will respond constructively. We have the resources and I believe we have the right attitude, overall. I don't doubt that we have the abilities.
-- Ed Huntress
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Ed Huntress wrote:

I sincerely hope you're right.
KG
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On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 13:11:37 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
<snip>

There are many areas of huge domestic US potential such as alternative energy sources, syn fuels, bio plastics, advances in ceramics/cement, hydroponic low-water consumption agriculture, low cost/high durability housing, and a return to domestic high value added manufacturing. It should be noted that in many cases the "education" required is *NOT* 4 or more years of college with a baccalaureate [or higher] degree, but rather some advanced training at the post secondary level [community college / votech] with supervised OJT.

<snip>
As Tonto is said to have remarked to the Lone Ranger as the 10,000 Apaches closed in -- "what you mean 'we' white man?"
The huge majority of American are more than up to it, the problem being that our self appointed leadership is not, some because of timidity, most because of senility [even at 40 and 50] and the shared hallucination that "we are living in the best of all possible worlds," (so what's to change).
Another major problem is that as soon as any progress is made, someone hyjacks the profits and/or processes, increases overhead, increases nonproductive head count, off shores production, etc. so despite enormous effort and innovation by the majority, no net societal progress results.
There appears to be two parallel and mutually reinforcing "solutions":
(1) Prohibit existing companies from participating in the new [competing] economic activities. If they could contribute they would already done so. For example, Exxon-Mobile, Conoco, Duke, etc. should be forbidden to participate in any of the alternative energy projects, such as geothermal, solar, wave, wind, as [passive] sabotage/resistance is far more likely than assistance.
(2) Absolute dollar and relative market share limits should be established and rigidly enforce on the new enterprises, with "roll ups" and "stealth chains" forbidden. As we should have learned to our sorrow "too big to fail" is "too big." This should also be imposed on the existing economic segments as practical, under the existing Sherman, Clayton and Robinson-Patman anti-trust acts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust
One key to the entire problem is showing the vast majority of people involved there is something in it for *THEM* in the long term.
If we expect people to get "an education," then some positive benefit [other than "try it you'l like it" or "its good for you"] must be seen for the person getting the education. There are finite supplies of money and time available to everyone, and the time and money spent on education can't be used to drink beer and party. ==>Most people do not have making their boss rich at the top of their list of life goals.<=
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:25:22 -0600, F George McDuffee

--snip--
George,
I think your largest obstacle here lies in the last four words of your last sentence. Saving, getting an education, investing and managing your investments, raising children to become successfully independent individuals capable of raising their own children... all of these require a belief in the long-term consequences, both good and bad, of our own actions and the actions of others.
Please feel free to contradict me, but I don't think that this is an innate skill. I see it as something that, when it _is_ learned, has to be learned by each individual. Parents, teachers, and bosses can, if they choose, offer warnings and recommendations, but we humans are a stubbornly conservative lot when it comes to deferring our gratification; we are capable of change, but generally only if we come to believe in some horrible and completely unavoidable penalty if we continue along the same path.

Agreed. And a while back, the High School Diploma was considered a sign of achievement, but somewhere along the road to Universal Education it seems to have lost its luster. I don't know to what extent this was the result of an emphasis on having teens graduate from high school over ensuring that they acquired a high school education, but the "social promotion" problem lends some credence to this view.
When I hear President Obama saying that the taxpayers should assist everyone in Getting A College Degree, I wish I could believe that this wouldn't simply wind up being an Economic Stimulus For Diploma Mills.

Find a way to do both and you'll have solved the funding problem for undergraduate higher education. <grin!>

Well, I have to say that it's right up near the top of _mine_, but I'm self-employed. <grin!>
Frank McKenney -- The joy of research must be found in doing, for every other harvest is uncertain. -- Theobald Smith -- Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887 Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney ayut mined spring dawt cahm (y'all)
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On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:55:34 -0600, Frnak McKenney

--------- What's to contradict? The problem comes in when there is very little perceived reward and lots of effort when you follow other peoples warnings and recommendations. E.g. "I worked hard, invested in a 401k, and now I'm screwed."

Indeed!!!!!
Most of this seems to arise because of serious confusion about what an "education" is or means. There also seems to be considerable confusion between identifier/predictor and causal factors.
*ALL* of the research in this area indicates that the single best predictor of a persons adult socio-economic status remains the socio-economic status of their same gender parent (or other adult roll model/mentor). In fact, this correlation is so strong that it is frequently omitted from statistical analysis in the studies because it explains "all" the observed variation, leaving nothing left to be explained by the latest "wonder" program under study.
This being the case, the fact that parents that can afford to send their children to college are "well off," may have more to do with the apparent benefits of college education than the instruction itself.
To sum up, most college students are "pre-selected" for success because their parent can afford to send the to college, i.e. the more expensive the college, the higher the socio-economic status of the parent, and the greater statistical likelihood of economic success of the student.
However there are significant indications that there are other "non-educational" factors in the apparent success of college education in increasing income, for example the opportunities for "social networking" and the potential to marry a higher income/status spouse [boss's daughter?].
In one sense, an education [in the traditional liberal arts tradition, not the trade school version] is a revamping and expansion of the students mind to include a variety of possibilities, options, techniques, methodologies, alternative explications, etc., rather than a simple accumulation of trivial pursuit "factoids." In point of fact, this frequently leads to considerable family dissension before the student learns to keep their mouth shut, and overtly starts questioning many of their family's tacit/subliminal assumptions and meta-narratives [the scripts that people keep playing in their head to make sense of the world], and even worse starts pointing out the inconsistencies and contradictions.
In the cases where the student is attending college/university on scholarship, the opportunities for networking, and the expansion of their perceptions to include alternative explications and opportunities appear to be a major factor in their later economic success, rather than any specific educational "nuggets," such as "in 1066"
This by the way, IMNSHO, is the fatal flaw of NCLB, standardized testing, and outcomes/competency based education, as it is easy to teach/test the factoids/nuggets and difficult to either teach or verify the higher levels of Bloom's taxonomy such as analyses, synthesizes, and appreciates, as opposed to names, lists and identifies. Sticking to "names, lists and identifies" also results in much less parental friction, from el-hi through university.

Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 11:34:36 -0500, Kirk Gordon
<snip>

<snip>
Reinforcing yet again the folk wisdom "The first thing to do when you are in a hole is stop digging."
This being the case why don't we take their shovels away?
Two suggestions:
(1) Reinstate the "up tick" rule [SEC 10a-1] by law rather than regulation with criminal penalties for violation, especially for repeated violation, including heavy fine, imprisonment and suspension from trading in any market.
(2) Prohibit the writing of new CDS [credit default swap] derivatives unless adequate loss reserves are posted, preferably in the form of cash or treasury securities deposited with a third party.
Water appears to be pouring in faster than it can be bailed out. The conclusion is that the leaks *MUST* be fixed or the boat will sink.
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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I skipped the meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
in rec.crafts.metalworking :

    And by taking around 8 million men out of the job market. -- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
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On Mar 1, 3:32 pm, F. George McDuffee <gmcduf...@mcduffee- associates.us>

They learned this from Congress using the SSBN funds for general revenue. I am sure that GM put in some IOU's , just like Congress has.
Dan
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Secret = I don't have the spec sheet near me to positively ID the bearings at this point only... 6801 is what rings a bell in my mind.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
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Joe AutoDrill wrote:

I hope your bell is wrong. 6801 is an ordinary deep groove radial ball bearing. It has almost NO capacity to handle thrust loads.
KG
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Joe, Can you add a thrust bearing ( radial rollers) to the face of the drilling head?Something like this: http://www.mcmaster.com/#thrust-bearings/=tt0fr
Judging from the spacing, I surmised that the bearings in use were 6800 or 6901's. Like Kirk sez.. not rated fro thrust.
Why can't they change the downfeed rate? is it fixed gearing for the downfeed, tied to the spindle? Can't they run the spindle with a VFD, to speed it up?
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Yep.
Nope.
Thus the original dilema that seems to have been solved. New dilema is finding out what is wrong with their bushing or clamping set up (not sold by me - whew!)
If it matters, I was finally told the model of the drill press - Jet GHD-20PFT
Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
V8013-R
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There is no way to have a .875" spacing with 6901 bearings. The 6801 bearings are 24mm OD, So the Minimum spaciing is .945" Thanks for the puzzle..
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It is clearly evident that I'm not the guy who layed out the head, eh? <grin>
I should get the engineering drawings before I make any more guesses about the unit...
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
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