Thugs in the machinist business

Szaki:

It would be my assumption that if they weren't making SOME profit they probably wouldn't be in business for very long.

The machinist, mechanic, and construction trades appeal to those with limited education because those trades are interested in employees that can do the WORK, not how many years of formal education they may have, or how good they look in a suit and tie. So you're realistically going to get a lot of employees that wouldn't qualify for jobs that require college degrees or even HS diplomas.

California used to have a program for recently released prison inmates where the state would pay for half their wages for the first 6 months or so. Perhaps that particular employer was making use of a similar program. Or maybe he was an ex-con himself and wanted to give other ex-cons a helping hand.

A lot of machinists, as well as people in general, are touchy about being criticized or told they are making an error of some sort. A case in point is your reaction to Dragon's somewhat critical reply. You didn't HAVE to react negatively, that was your own choice. I'm not trying to get on your case, just illustrating how people may react negatively without even thinking about what they are doing.

Here might be a partial solution to what you perceive as a problem. Larger shops often do legal & credit background checks and have implemented drug/alcohol testing. That might eliminate a significant portion of what you consider the "thug" element.

Well, you would be surprised how many company don't make profit and survive. Machine shop can be a department or part of large company, etc... don't really have to make money, they are over head . They do run a cost account, but that's all. You thinking of independent small shops, Mom N Pap shops, they have to make profit. JS

JS:

You're absolutely correct. I *was* only thinking about independent machine shops and not considering the machining departments of larger companies.

So THAT'S where those $32 an hour jobs are. I just KNEW I was missing out on something all these years.

How much money you making, depends on location and what company you working for. In high priced, big city area they pay more, also large companies tend to pay 20-30% more than small independent shops. Work is easier too, but there are lot more company regulations one has to deal with, which some people just can't deal with. Small shops like to create family environment for employees, big companies treat employees like another job card #-s, not very personal. Take your pick. If you like to live in the fast lane, as I see on your web site Bob, big company environment may be not for you, where you get lot of judgment by your behavior and how you talk by white shirt and gray suit managers. They don't like cowboy mentality most places. JS

JS:

I gain job satisfaction in having the potential to make a difference, rather than just being a replaceable cog in some giant mechanism. That is one of the primary reasons I've not taken the path of jumping ship for those elusive greener pastures of $.50 an hour more, as a lot of machinists tend to do. And you're right that a "family" environment is more pleasant to work in, than an adversarial one.

Heh, I don't know about "the fast lane", but I do like doing a variety of work. And to comment on something you said elsewhere, teamwork *IS* important in our shop of about 8 machinists and 4 auxiliary employees.

IMO, no amount of money per hour could be incentive enough for me to work in a job I'm not comfortable with. If I had the choice to be miserable at $35 per hour or be happy at $15 per hour, I'd probably take the $15. Life's just too short to be miserable most of your waking hours.

Bob,

This is why I am enjoying VX so much... it makes modeling and assembly fun for me rather than being a drag or yet another "miserable" task.

The tools in VX work the way my mind thinks they should.

Do you remember when Gibbs did that for you ? Does Gibbs still do this for you ? Is Gibbs still fun for you to use ?

I'm going to import some legacy 2D wireframe data from AutoCAD and see how well I like converting it to solids in VX... yet another task that "SaladWorks", Pro/E, etc. choak on.

I have a question on brake bleeding. Do you think I should ask it here... after all we have some in this newsgroup that are gearheads. :>) While perhaps it's not the perfect place to ask it's still better than many of the off topic threads that often consume this newsgroup or debating whether one should have as many tools as you and I have at work.... just too boring to debate yet again.

jon

Jon:

Well, I used to take the Gibbs dongle home and play around creating stuff, but I haven't done that in a looong time. So I guess the honeymoon is essentially over.

Those people who are passionate about what they do are, IMO, very fortunate. It's so easy to burn out, especially in a career that has a lot of overtime associated with the job.

Heh, it would be more on-topic than WMD's, pro/anti gun opinions, or political rhetoric. At least it's "mechanical", and might lead to a discussion on the machining of fittings and such. So I'd say ask away, you might get a response. I hear those vacuum brake bleeders are the way to go.

Hi Bob,

Perhaps it's time to model more complex stuff and assemblies in a product that gives you the feeling that Gibbs once did ? I would appreciate your input on the video I uploaded and how it compares to modeling with other products you have used.

Last weekend I changed the master cylinder on my Saab 900 Turbo. Easy job except for the brake bleeding which required a second person.

I tried a hand held Mighty Vac.... forget that, it takes forever compared to having someone help by steping on the brake and pressing it to the floor while you open and close the bleeder valve.

What made it even worse was that I decided I wanted to remove all the old brake fluid and have all new.

What tool is available that makes this a one man job ?

I like to work on my car alone and I don't want to have to depend on anyone.

jon

Jon:

When I first started playing around with AutoCad, Gibbs, Mastercam, Solidworks, Rhino, etc. they were a NEW thing to me, like video games and were a lot of fun. But programming day in and day out for years with a CAM system eventually takes the edge off the novelty and fun factor. Just as I doubt if I could recapture the feeling of my first love, I doubt if I can recapture the enjoyment and novelty that modeling and geometry creation once held for me.

I'll give it a look, probably on the weekend when I have more time.

A professional vacuum brake bleeder. A little pricey for only occasional use. It would probably be cheaper to get one of those homeless guys you see on the freeway off ramps that hold those signs saying: "Will Work For Food" to give you a hand - err foot, for a "Big Mac" or something.

Wow, all the "Will Work For Food" signs dissappeared a long time ago around here. More frequently see "Need beer money" signs. Oh well, at least they're "honest". I think they figured out that in the two hours it takes to hitch a ride to your house, bleed your brakes, ride to McDonald's, eat a Big Mac, ride back to their post, they could have gotten about $200 in hand-outs.

My uncle Ed Johnson was the villiage mechanic for many many years.....As the story goes a customer walked in one day and Ed was under a car, adjusting the clutch.

Something had slipped and his fingers were stuck in the mechanism, trapping him under there.

Patiently, he asked the customer if he would do him a "favor" and get in the car and carefully push in the clutch pedal and hold it down for a couple seconds....

Ed had to work with one hand for nearly a month as his fingers healed.

===

My uncle Gene Rutledge was working under his motor home, happily retired and in his mid to late sixties....when it fell on top of him and he suffered fatal internal injuries.....

IIRC, they found him nearly three days later....they figure he was still alive for about half that time and if someone had just been there to call for help he would still be with us today.

===

A friend of mine in high school was working under a volkswagon and accidentally dropped a wrench onto the starter solenoid...the car started and dragged him across the street, breaking both of his arms before it finally came to rest against the curb and stalled.

===

Do be very careful when working by yourself is all I'm saying.

Most of the guys and gal's I work with seem decent enough. Not only that, they don't crash their machines that often so I don't have to fix them that often.

Now there are a few over in testing and assembly that I wonder about....

Wes