What else do you need?

OK, so we buy a new VMC. What else do you need to go with it? Keep in mind that we are not a job shop but rather a small OEM wanting
to make our own parts. So far I have a relatively short list:
- Tool holders - Tools (based on work to be done) - Bandsaw to rough cut stock (what type?) - Metal-cutting chop saw? - RO filter system if hard water is a problem - Hoist to move stock in and out (what kind?) - The usual set of calipers and tools for measurement and QC - Sturdy table for work prep and inspection - Safety equipment
I am sure that the list is significantly longer than this...
Thanks,
-Martin
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m wrote:

Martin:
    Are you saying you're starting from scratch with an empty warehouse with NOTHING at all? No computers, no software, no manual machines, no end mills, no drills, no measuring tools?
    What DO you have?
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JB? LOL
Had again Bob.....
JC
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Fair question.
Lots of computers. Not problem there. We have Soliworks, of course. We have some measuring tools, but I wouldn't dare use them in the CNC shop. We are basicly going to take about 1500sqf our of our warehouse space and slowly build-up a CNC shop. It starts with a VMC. I can see ending up with one or two more over two years. Perhaps a CNC lathe (although I have no project in the pipeline that could use one today). I can see a future need for a simple manual machine. To clarify further, we've been using outside metalworking services for about ten years. Now we want to bring machining in house and continue to send out the sheetmetal work.
So, yes, take 1,500 square feet and build a CNC shop based around one machine. That's what we are doing. We have plenty of shelving and the sort of stuff you'd expect to see in a reasonable sized warehouse. I am primarily concerned about the basic tools, material handling and supplies we should consider getting to surround the VMC.
Thanks,
-Martin
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m wrote:

Martin:
    First, let me say one thing about your possible machine purchase. IMO, you ABSOLUTELY need "Rigid-Tapping".
    As far as starting from scratch, you might think about buying a complete shop. There should be plenty on the verge of going out of business right now.     I mean you are talking about literally THOUSANDS of little items that you're going to need.
    Hey, have I got a deal for you. I've got a toolbox full of juicy items; digital mics & calipers, multiple indicators, sine vise, grinding vises, about every indicator sweeper made, complete cobalt drill set, dowel pin reamers, indicating tool length setter, thread mic, air drill, air grinders, dial bore gages, etc. etc. even a Haas hat. LOL
--
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Yup, that's in the menu.

As sad as this might be, it is true. One approach would be to get the basics to get started and keep an eye out for that sort of an opportunity.
-Martin
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I sure hope you don't mean that. I can't imagine doing something productive all one's life and just walking away from it.
Wes
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snipped-for-privacy@lycos.com wrote:

Wes:
    Well there's a popular aphorism that may be apropos here: "The WORST day FISHING, is better than the BEST day WORKING."
    And contrary to popular belief, I don't don't bleed Hangsterfer's S500 coolant. LOL
    
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BB has a small CNC and a guard cat so he can start his own business "if" the IRS will sign off on the guard cat business expense.
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Why wrote:

DD:
    Man, that lil' sucker sunk a couple of fangs in my arm about a week ago. Looked like I was Vampire bit... - for days.
--
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On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:13:22 -0800 (PST), m
<snip>

<snip>
You will need some medium quality measuring tools and more importantly some way to verify their accuracy.
Generally this means a set of gauge blocks. Periodic verification is vital depending on your product tolerances.
While you don't want the cheap stuff, as you are starting out, the medium quality should be adequate, and it is less expensive when you drop or "crunch" it. You may want to consider a set of inexpensive "space" blocks for shop use and keep the set of gauge blocks for reference. Gauge pins are inexpensive and can be helpful in detecting worn micrometer anvils, checking slot widths, etc..
most mill supplies will have in stock but for some examples see http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKAc0-4124&PMPXNO3369&PARTPG=INLMK32 http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKAc0-4050&PMPXNO0511&PARTPG=INLMK3 http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA27-2890&PMPXNO"508020&PARTPG=INLMK3
{Question to our money players -- are you using digital readout mics/indicators in your shop or are you sticking with the analog stuff? It would seem that an analog drop/test indicator may be better for alignment, but...} http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA07-0142&PMPXNOV96115&PARTPG=INLMK3 http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE23&PMITEM07-0142 http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA19-3787&PMPXNO507152&PARTPG=INLMK3
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:05:31 -0600, F. George McDuffee

And why wouldn't you use your good measuring tools in a CNC shop or are you planning ahead to run a dirty unorganized shop? You should be taking care of the machinery and tooling just like you would for inspection equipment.
IMO it makes sense to have your good tools in the office if that is where you are planning on running your parts. Exception is a tool such as CMM where temperature control is necessary or otherwise not able to put on the shop floor.
And if you're planning on having people on the floor you can't trust with good measuring tools how in the heck can you trust them to handle more expensive machinery and tooling properly?
-- Tom http://tinyurl.com/5okkgz
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I wasn't clear enough. The measuring tools we have are not good. For example, a couple of sets of cheap plastic calipers. OK for getting a sense of proportion when you are desiging something in SW, but useless for the machine shop. We need to buy real metrology tools.
-Martin
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On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:37:55 -0800 (PST), m

-------- Thats how I understood your comments.
Beyond certain basics, much will depend on the specific types/sizes of products you are making, the product features you are measuring [i.e. slots, depths, angles, diameters, etc.] and the required accuracy. The more explicit you are, the better the suggestions will be. For example, a surface plate [size?] and height guage may be vital, it may be useless, or somewhere in between for your product mix.
Your local community college may offer a metrology class. If so this can shorten the learning curve significently, and you will get some hands-on to see what brands/types of equipment you like, e.g. analog v. digital. some examples http://www.edisonohio.edu/syllabi/MFG%20110S%20Part%201.pdf http://cf.linnbenton.edu/eit/machine/niederj/upload/insp107syl.pdf
It can also be helpful to get some basic texts on metrology. http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA 5-1036&PMPXNO8311 http://new.industrialpress.com/products/category_list/MES https://www.hansergardner.com/dp/hgweb/detail.cfm?isbn=1-56990-391-3 and many others.
You local mill supply should have a number of free handouts they can provide, or the measuring equipment manufacturers will frequently send for free on request. http://catalog.starrett.com/catalog/catalog/PLH2.asp?NodeNum 000 http://catalog.starrett.com/catalog/catalog/PLH2.asp?NodeNum )056 http://www.mitutoyo.com/ProductTypeResultForm.aspx?type 66 http://www.mitutoyo.com/template1.aspx?ida http://www.mitutoyo.com/template2.aspx?idf "This two-day course presents the science of measurement for students of dimensional metrology. It is intended for anyone who wishes to learn the basic tools and techniques required for reliable measurement. The course covers a variety of related topics to apply measurement principles with best practices and presents fundamental considerations for the proper selection, application, and care of typical measurement systems. "
Good luck and let the group know what you decide and how you make out.
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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wrote:

Martin,
Sorry, a bit of a pet peeve, I thought you were saying your inspection tools are too good to put out on the floor. Since having been through this a few times in real life I took your comments the other way.
Tom
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Fair question.
Lots of computers. Not problem there. We have Soliworks, of course. We have some measuring tools, but I wouldn't dare use them in the CNC shop. We are basicly going to take about 1500sqf our of our warehouse space and slowly build-up a CNC shop. It starts with a VMC. I can see ending up with one or two more over two years. Perhaps a CNC lathe (although I have no project in the pipeline that could use one today). I can see a future need for a simple manual machine. To clarify further, we've been using outside metalworking services for about ten years. Now we want to bring machining in house and continue to send out the sheetmetal work.
So, yes, take 1,500 square feet and build a CNC shop based around one machine. That's what we are doing. We have plenty of shelving and the sort of stuff you'd expect to see in a reasonable sized warehouse. I am primarily concerned about the basic tools, material handling and supplies we should consider getting to surround the VMC.
Thanks,
-Martin
You're going to need somebody with machine shop experience to help out. Otherwise all the rookie mistakes will be made and you'll wish the work was still being outsourced. Besides, you hire someone with all their own tools and you don't have to buy them.
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If your parts are small enough, you won't even need a hoist, palletjack, lift or forklift. If your parts are bigger, then you will. Maybe a cold saw will be better than a bandsaw, maybe not. It depends on your material. Maybe a tumbler/finishing machine. Maybe not. Mag base and DTI. Clamp on base and DTI Vises, Material for soft jaws, or maybe not. Parrallels, if needed, depends on product. Parrallel keepers, depends on above. Drill bits. Taps, reamers, bolts, screws, washers, for fixtures. Or not. Depends on what you are doing. MiteeBite clamps, or not. depends on what you are doing. Mistbuster. Or not. Inspection equipment. Spindle probe? or not. Depends on parts. Mandrels, saws, mill cutters, or not. depends on WTF are you making!!! Compressor, air lines, traps, auto drains, refrigerated dryer. Etc. Wrenches, brass hammer, allen wrenches, screwdrivers... Vacuum pump, plumbing, colant traps, etc. if you parts are held by vacuum... Rubber O-Ring cords, plumbing, plates for vacuum fixture. If needed...
I could type all week, listing everything I need on a monthly basis, depending on the jobs I get..
IOW, an unanswerable question..
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Half-nutz wrote:

Agree there, they are nice to have.

Ditto
KURT Knockoff? Couldn't resist <g>

I rarely use hard jaws.

True and you never seem to stop buying em!

I still hate air leaks !

Just so happens I gearing of for vac fixturing at the moment. Hope it works out.
Wayne (Still here!)
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On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:27:17 +0000, Wayne Weedon

Unless you're JB who's oil gages always read zero you may need;
Coolant, hydraulic, way, possibly pneumatic oils and possibly grease.
Tramp Oil Skimmer and if you follow some of the threads here a coolant (fish) tank aerator.
-- Tom http://tinyurl.com/5okkgz
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Is it escential to dry the air supply? Any recommendations on an air dryer?

I know...but all of this adds to my checklist, which is very helpful.
Thank you,
-Martin
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