What else do you need?

OK, so we buy a new VMC. What else do you need to go with it?
Keep in mind that we are not a job shop but rather a small OEM wanting
to make our own parts.
So far I have a relatively short list:
- Tool holders
- Tools (based on work to be done)
- Bandsaw to rough cut stock (what type?)
- Metal-cutting chop saw?
- RO filter system if hard water is a problem
- Hoist to move stock in and out (what kind?)
- The usual set of calipers and tools for measurement and QC
- Sturdy table for work prep and inspection
- Safety equipment
I am sure that the list is significantly longer than this...
Thanks,
-Martin
Reply to
m
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Martin:
Are you saying you're starting from scratch with an empty warehouse with NOTHING at all? No computers, no software, no manual machines, no end mills, no drills, no measuring tools?
What DO you have?
Reply to
BottleBob
If your parts are small enough, you won't even need a hoist, palletjack, lift or forklift. If your parts are bigger, then you will. Maybe a cold saw will be better than a bandsaw, maybe not. It depends on your material. Maybe a tumbler/finishing machine. Maybe not. Mag base and DTI. Clamp on base and DTI Vises, Material for soft jaws, or maybe not. Parrallels, if needed, depends on product. Parrallel keepers, depends on above. Drill bits. Taps, reamers, bolts, screws, washers, for fixtures. Or not. Depends on what you are doing. MiteeBite clamps, or not. depends on what you are doing. Mistbuster. Or not. Inspection equipment. Spindle probe? or not. Depends on parts. Mandrels, saws, mill cutters, or not. depends on WTF are you making!!! Compressor, air lines, traps, auto drains, refrigerated dryer. Etc. Wrenches, brass hammer, allen wrenches, screwdrivers... Vacuum pump, plumbing, colant traps, etc. if you parts are held by vacuum... Rubber O-Ring cords, plumbing, plates for vacuum fixture. If needed...
I could type all week, listing everything I need on a monthly basis, depending on the jobs I get..
IOW, an unanswerable question..
Reply to
Half-nutz
JB? LOL
Had again Bob.....
JC
Reply to
John R. Carroll
Agree there, they are nice to have.
Ditto
KURT Knockoff? Couldn't resist
I rarely use hard jaws.
True and you never seem to stop buying em!
I still hate air leaks !
Just so happens I gearing of for vac fixturing at the moment. Hope it works out.
Wayne (Still here!)
Reply to
Wayne Weedon
Fair question.
Lots of computers. Not problem there. We have Soliworks, of course. We have some measuring tools, but I wouldn't dare use them in the CNC shop. We are basicly going to take about 1500sqf our of our warehouse space and slowly build-up a CNC shop. It starts with a VMC. I can see ending up with one or two more over two years. Perhaps a CNC lathe (although I have no project in the pipeline that could use one today). I can see a future need for a simple manual machine. To clarify further, we've been using outside metalworking services for about ten years. Now we want to bring machining in house and continue to send out the sheetmetal work.
So, yes, take 1,500 square feet and build a CNC shop based around one machine. That's what we are doing. We have plenty of shelving and the sort of stuff you'd expect to see in a reasonable sized warehouse. I am primarily concerned about the basic tools, material handling and supplies we should consider getting to surround the VMC.
Thanks,
-Martin
Reply to
m
Is it escential to dry the air supply? Any recommendations on an air dryer?
I know...but all of this adds to my checklist, which is very helpful.
Thank you,
-Martin
Reply to
m
Unless you're JB who's oil gages always read zero you may need;
Coolant, hydraulic, way, possibly pneumatic oils and possibly grease.
Tramp Oil Skimmer and if you follow some of the threads here a coolant (fish) tank aerator.
-- Tom
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Reply to
brewertr
Martin:
First, let me say one thing about your possible machine purchase. IMO, you ABSOLUTELY need "Rigid-Tapping".
As far as starting from scratch, you might think about buying a complete shop. There should be plenty on the verge of going out of business right now. I mean you are talking about literally THOUSANDS of little items that you're going to need.
Hey, have I got a deal for you. I've got a toolbox full of juicy items; digital mics & calipers, multiple indicators, sine vise, grinding vises, about every indicator sweeper made, complete cobalt drill set, dowel pin reamers, indicating tool length setter, thread mic, air drill, air grinders, dial bore gages, etc. etc. even a Haas hat. LOL
Reply to
BottleBob
================== A tool setter unless the machine is so equipped. for examples
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?SIITEM001=636-7044&SIQTY001=1&SICOUNT=1(and many others -- again our money players can tell you what works)
One critical item I did not see on your list is operator/programmer training, and possibly a basic cnc library. Main thing is not to spend time/money reinventing the wheel.
{Our money players should also have some favorites/suggestions.}
Smidt is a good basic reference, although he stresses Fanuc.
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?catID=2500&ISBN=0827372450
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?catid=2501&isbn=0766818888{package deal}
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if you don't have one a Machinery's Handbook
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These are just examples from the publisher and are frequently on sale from Amazon, Enco, etc.
** Anything that your machine manufacturer/distributor has in the way of instructional material or bulletins.
==> Get several sets of the manuals. [The gearheads in the shop will appreciate having their own copy]
Classes are *MUCH* cheaper than crashes. Try your local community college first.
On line cnc instruction is available.
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Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
Reply to
F. George McDuffee
You will need some medium quality measuring tools and more importantly some way to verify their accuracy.
Generally this means a set of gauge blocks. Periodic verification is vital depending on your product tolerances.
While you don't want the cheap stuff, as you are starting out, the medium quality should be adequate, and it is less expensive when you drop or "crunch" it. You may want to consider a set of inexpensive "space" blocks for shop use and keep the set of gauge blocks for reference. Gauge pins are inexpensive and can be helpful in detecting worn micrometer anvils, checking slot widths, etc..
most mill supplies will have in stock but for some examples see
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{Question to our money players -- are you using digital readout mics/indicators in your shop or are you sticking with the analog stuff? It would seem that an analog drop/test indicator may be better for alignment, but...}
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?PMPAGE=323&PMITEM=307-0142
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Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
Reply to
F. George McDuffee
And why wouldn't you use your good measuring tools in a CNC shop or are you planning ahead to run a dirty unorganized shop? You should be taking care of the machinery and tooling just like you would for inspection equipment.
IMO it makes sense to have your good tools in the office if that is where you are planning on running your parts. Exception is a tool such as CMM where temperature control is necessary or otherwise not able to put on the shop floor.
And if you're planning on having people on the floor you can't trust with good measuring tools how in the heck can you trust them to handle more expensive machinery and tooling properly?
-- Tom
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Reply to
brewertr
Hi Martin,
You are taking on quite a bit here.
The regular filter / regulators on the machine will do fine unless you are in a high humidity area. A desiccant filter in line will help if you are getting a lot of water in the system.
As far as the shopping list get on the MSC/J&L and Enco (any other favorites?) email special list, catalog and monthly rag list. You can pretty much start at page one of any of the catalogs and go page by page or section and find something you will need. Use it as a road map. This will become a priority game to get you up and running, adding the must haves immediately and the nice to haves when they are on special. Watch those emails and rags for "good deals", get the email codes that save 10 -35% or get free shipping. It all adds up. I don't know about CA, but in AZ Enco doesn't charge sales tax and can get most anything free shipping. I am a tool junky and it is an expensive habit.
As time permits consider the used stuff, I go to several pawn shops that have decent tool selections. Check out the want adds and garage sales if time permits. Dare I say Ebay and Craig's list occasionally have some good deals, if nothing else can check asking prices. Auctions are hit and miss. Used equipment sales are usually 70% of new price, no warranty and was formerly somebody's problem.
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- this will redirect you to MSC/J&L
If you have questions about specific brands, I believe the expert panel of judges around here will beat them up for you! JL
Reply to
JL
Snip
Martin, I'm getting the sense from your questions that the first "tool" you should pick up is a good machinist. Even if it's only on a consulting basis for buying needed tools, setting up the shop, and getting production going, you will save a lot of time and prevent false starts by having a person who's "been there" to help you.
And if you're chosen well, that person will be someone you'll want to stay on, to run the shop efficiently. Don't underestimate the value of an experienced worker - they can aid in refining parts (they've made thousands/millions, and know how to make things more manufacturable), can give even good engineers a second pair of eyes for part design rationalization, and will take the burden off inexperienced people for CNC programming and machine setup.
Even if you're determined to "DIY", having someone to help at the beginning will be a major time saver.
Just my humble opin.
Toolpost
Reply to
Toolpost
F. George McDuffee wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
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Reply to
D Murphy
much one of these costs? say
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Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
Reply to
F. George McDuffee
Depending on what you wanna make with the VMC, I'd say you are set up and ready to go. Just make sure you have some vise to clamp the stuff that needs machining on the machine. I don't see that you have a vise put on that list
Reply to
adchin
Fair question.
Lots of computers. Not problem there. We have Soliworks, of course. We have some measuring tools, but I wouldn't dare use them in the CNC shop. We are basicly going to take about 1500sqf our of our warehouse space and slowly build-up a CNC shop. It starts with a VMC. I can see ending up with one or two more over two years. Perhaps a CNC lathe (although I have no project in the pipeline that could use one today). I can see a future need for a simple manual machine. To clarify further, we've been using outside metalworking services for about ten years. Now we want to bring machining in house and continue to send out the sheetmetal work.
So, yes, take 1,500 square feet and build a CNC shop based around one machine. That's what we are doing. We have plenty of shelving and the sort of stuff you'd expect to see in a reasonable sized warehouse. I am primarily concerned about the basic tools, material handling and supplies we should consider getting to surround the VMC.
Thanks,
-Martin
You're going to need somebody with machine shop experience to help out. Otherwise all the rookie mistakes will be made and you'll wish the work was still being outsourced. Besides, you hire someone with all their own tools and you don't have to buy them.
Reply to
ff
Something on the bench for tightening tools / collets into your holders.
Reply to
Bipolar Bear
I wasn't clear enough. The measuring tools we have are not good. For example, a couple of sets of cheap plastic calipers. OK for getting a sense of proportion when you are desiging something in SW, but useless for the machine shop. We need to buy real metrology tools.
-Martin
Reply to
m

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