What else do you need?

Hi Martin,
You are taking on quite a bit here.
The regular filter / regulators on the machine will do fine unless you are in a high humidity area. A desiccant filter in line will help if
you are getting a lot of water in the system.
As far as the shopping list get on the MSC/J&L and Enco (any other favorites?) email special list, catalog and monthly rag list. You can pretty much start at page one of any of the catalogs and go page by page or section and find something you will need. Use it as a road map. This will become a priority game to get you up and running, adding the must haves immediately and the nice to haves when they are on special. Watch those emails and rags for "good deals", get the email codes that save 10 -35% or get free shipping. It all adds up. I don't know about CA, but in AZ Enco doesn't charge sales tax and can get most anything free shipping. I am a tool junky and it is an expensive habit.
As time permits consider the used stuff, I go to several pawn shops that have decent tool selections. Check out the want adds and garage sales if time permits. Dare I say Ebay and Craig's list occasionally have some good deals, if nothing else can check asking prices. Auctions are hit and miss. Used equipment sales are usually 70% of new price, no warranty and was formerly somebody's problem.
www.use-enco.com www.jlindustrial.com - this will redirect you to MSC/J&L
If you have questions about specific brands, I believe the expert panel of judges around here will beat them up for you! JL

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On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:11:19 -0800 (PST), m

=================A tool setter unless the machine is so equipped. for examples http://www.flexbar.com/PDF/General/174-%20electronic%20tool%20setter.pdf http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA08-0391&PMPXNO093229&PARTPG=INSRHI http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INLMKD?SIITEM001c6-7044&SIQTY001=1&SICOUNT=1 (and many others -- again our money players can tell you what works)
One critical item I did not see on your list is operator/programmer training, and possibly a basic cnc library. Main thing is not to spend time/money reinventing the wheel.
{Our money players should also have some favorites/suggestions.}
Smidt is a good basic reference, although he stresses Fanuc. http://new.industrialpress.com/node/903 http://new.industrialpress.com/9780831130640 http://new.industrialpress.com/9780831131852 https://www.hansergardner.com/dp/hgweb/detail.cfm?isbn=1-56990-296-8 http://www.delmarlearning.com/browse_product_detail.aspx?catID%00&ISBN 27372450 http://www.delmarlearning.com/browse_product_detail.aspx?catid2816&isbn 18060992 http://www.delmarlearning.com/browse_product_detail.aspx?catid%01&isbn 66818888 {package deal} http://new.industrialpress.com/9780831133900 And if you don't have one a Machinery's Handbook http://new.industrialpress.com/products/category_feature/MH
These are just examples from the publisher and are frequently on sale from Amazon, Enco, etc.
** Anything that your machine manufacturer/distributor has in the way of instructional material or bulletins.
==> Get several sets of the manuals. [The gearheads in the shop will appreciate having their own copy]
Classes are *MUCH* cheaper than crashes. Try your local community college first.
On line cnc instruction is available. http://www.amtda.org/website/download.asp?idG9 http://www.toolingu.com/dept-300-cnc-training.html
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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http://www.blum-novotest.de/index.php?id #
--

Dan



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wrote:

Looks good, it also looks like a "spicy meatball." Any idea how much one of these costs? say http://www.blum-novotest.de/index.php?id#6
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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I don't have pricing handy but I can find out. They aren't that much. Plus they pay for themselves in fairly short order.
--

Dan

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Is a tool setter the same thing as the probing system offered on Haas machines?
-Martin
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No. You need some way of establishing the length and diameter of the tool. You can use an offline presteer. Or touch the tool to a known qualified surface and use the "measure" function or calculate the offset for length, and measure the tool with hand tools for diameter.
Or you can use a tool setter. Or a laser like the one I linked to.
The advantage of the laser is that you can also use it for tool breakage detection. It also measures the tool at speed and you can measure every tool before you use it. This comes in handy if you are doing tight tolerance work, as it sees the effects of thermal displacement.
It also eliminates crashes due to operator error in setting offsets.
--

Dan

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That's the one I use it works very well, found on Ebay for 1/2 that price.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Tom:
    I use the following Zero-Setter, as it's only 1" high and has a smaller footprint than the 2" tall one you listed.
http://tinyurl.com/dy3h28
    But for Martin, these indicating setters are probably overkill when just starting out - as a dowel pin will do an adequate job at a greatly reduced expense.
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BottleBob
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As long as you don't "bump" your carbide end mill into it <GRIN>.
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Speaking of that, do you still have one of Santa Cruz Mike's setters? Would you sell it?
And since you are (semi)-retired, maybe you could consult with Martin to get his shop set up so that he avoids a number of beginner mis-steps.
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Alphonso wrote:

Alphonso:
    You mean his Millabrator? Yes, I've got one - it's like new since I seldom used it and kept it covered in the drawer. Sell it? I don't know, it cost $375. But if you can use it make me an offer.

    I went to the shop today. Man, everything is in disarray since they are having a brand new 40X20 Fadal delivered tomorrow and it was like a scene out of the Keystone Kops playing musical machines to fit it in.
--
BottleBob
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Check your email.

Sounds like you could have some fun for awhile straightening them out.
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Got it. I'll take a look at the links you posted.
Thanks,
-Martin
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Snip
Martin, I'm getting the sense from your questions that the first "tool" you should pick up is a good machinist. Even if it's only on a consulting basis for buying needed tools, setting up the shop, and getting production going, you will save a lot of time and prevent false starts by having a person who's "been there" to help you.
And if you're chosen well, that person will be someone you'll want to stay on, to run the shop efficiently. Don't underestimate the value of an experienced worker - they can aid in refining parts (they've made thousands/millions, and know how to make things more manufacturable), can give even good engineers a second pair of eyes for part design rationalization, and will take the burden off inexperienced people for CNC programming and machine setup.
Even if you're determined to "DIY", having someone to help at the beginning will be a major time saver.
Just my humble opin.
Toolpost
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...
What you say is true and very valid. I have someone who will take on this part of the operation and he is very involved in selection and all we are doing pre-purchase. I am one of those engineers that actually gets his hands dirty. I have a full wood shop at home, weld, design, and make my own stuff. I've owned both manual and simple CNC machines in the past..so I am not a complete newcomer to chewing on metal. So, none of this scares me or strikes me as terribly difficult if one spends a reasonable amount of effort learning. Having said that, I am also humble enough to recognize how much I don't know and that's why I am here asking dumb questions. I feel I've learned quite a bit with just a few posts and appreciate the input I have received. It will surely help make the right decisions.
-Martin
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I concur. Since software is still looming over the horizon, someone that can program, setup and operate either permanent or while you get up to speed would be a big plus. Rookie mistakes bite, especially if you haven't scared the crap out of yourself enough to be anal about absolutely everything. My first rule of CNC: It is not a matter of IF, it is when and how bad. JL
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Depending on what you wanna make with the VMC, I'd say you are set up and ready to go. Just make sure you have some vise to clamp the stuff that needs machining on the machine. I don't see that you have a vise put on that list
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I sort of take stuff like vices and clamps as a given. I probably have a full set in the garage somewhere from an old Bridgeport CNC I used to own.
-Martin
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