Allen Bradley SLC5 Software

Sure. Your local Allen-Bradley rep. Only $500-600. + a few hundred a year for maintenance.

So what if I don't have that much money ?

Steve Cothran wrote in

news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

You could always try switching to a another brand of PLC without the billion dollar software program that you will only use 1% of anyway.

I'm using a real nice unit, with an extruded black andoized frame and aluminum ends, din rail mounted... the programming software and kit is 180 dollars.

Their smallest PLC with about 400 possible functions, a wide range of configurations, 8 inputs and 8 outputs and a complete range of voltages, digital and analog inputs and outputs costs

99 dollars.. they go up from there. IDEC makes a good one also at about 50% more.

Don't buy more capability than you need.

If you are stuck with the AB unit..already in place maybe you can sub contract the programming changes and edits to a free lance AB programmer..have them bill your client direct or whatever.

How complex is this lash up anyway? A moon rocket or just a few relays and timers operating a machine?

Phil Scott

program an Allen

hundred a

What is it, Phil? Wago? I've used some AutomationDirects (software $100), but they have no nice extruded cases.

Back to the OP's question, being serious this time, if you buy a copy of Rslogix off ebay or somewhere, be sure you get the keydisk with it. Also be aware that AB software changes versions with the slightest breeze, and programs made with v6.0 can not be directly loaded into v5.5, at least not the comments and symbols.

I'll start the old thing about how methinks that PLC manufacturers should give away their software to get you to buy their PLC's.

Think about it this way. Lets say you (an engineer) bid a job with a few PLCs and then turn it over to the customer. If the customer has some savvy maintenance tech on staff, they'll just repair or upgrade the system on their own. If the cost of the tools is kept high, they are more likely to refer such business back to the engineering firm (you).

AB (and others) might be happy to give the stuff away (or just cover their expenses) but their customers (consultants) would get upset.

The answer is you buy it.

programming

(software

Call Robin at (508) 990 2977

buy a copy

keydisk with it.

slightest

loaded into

manufacturers

PLC's.

andoized

programming

(software

buy a copy

keydisk with it.

slightest

loaded into

manufacturers

PLC's.

job with a few

has some

upgrade the

they are

firm (you).

just cover

upset.

Not to be obtuse or anything, and to a large degree I agree with you, but thats the kind of logic and strategy that got so much work sent to india..

. and its what's driving PLC sales to chinese options now... and its why chinese computers are selling in the US now and there is a fast move to linux/chinese world wide. The Bill Gates strategy runs out of gas unless you can dominate the entire world market.

In the PLC market Allen Bradley has no hope of that...especially as there are so many new open market options. they are narrowing themselves into a corner with their wonderful line of world class sensors... thats not the broader market.. when they loose the broader market they cease to be viable...meantime the chinese and germans are coming up with some world class sensors of their own.

we are loosing 50 million baby boomers to retirement over the next 4 years, thats half of our high end work force. Mfgrs will be forced to systems they can figure out themselves using people with minimal skills... AB will become a dinosaur in that scenario.

The 100 or 200 dollar PLC's that anyone can copy a new program into (if the ladder logic is already on paper) with half an hours training will put AB out of business since they are not even remotely geared to operate at that level.

Then AB will say, as our US engineering firms said.."We don't need the low end stuff, let that go over seas, we will do the high end (chest thump) and management (double chest thump and puffing up)...here"

that lasted about 3 years...

now instead of 4 to 6 full pages of engineering jobs in the SF Chronicle each sunday we had less than a page of help wanted adds total..

. and only two private engineering job ads, for odd specialties (govt though continues to hire a few engineers that no way in hell can be afford with the tax base in collapse.. managers are probably hiring so when the nasty cuts come next year they will have people to lay off besides themselves).

The chinese are doing world class CPU development..on thier own now. In construction it turned out we didnt need 15 fat heads in an engineering office to manage...one works well.. the rest goes to india.

The rhetoric that its coming back onshore is not correct... or we would not be down to TWO engineering job adds total, all disciplines and industries... from thousands just 4 years ago in the SF paper. Thats all bogus you see.

It is interesting though.. Im 64 and just for kicks I put out a tech resume...Mechanical/ electrical ..HVAC tech...forwarding my industrial experience.. and controls, PLC's also..and got two hard hits in two days with only 6 resume's sent out.

Its tough getting talent to fly in from india to do field work ... no one said a word about my age... 5 years ago forget it.. not now. Times are changing real fast.

Front line talent is dyng off ...if you can still do it you are in demand... and at more than an engineering firm will pay at that in my case.

talent is in short supply now..one of the complaints i get on my controls project cold calls is that 'we cant figure out the crap we have now, so whats so hot about what you have'... I show them my self diagnose, anyone can fix it demo.

The PLC is in on TRW quick connect plugs and DIN rail (the good ones)...I tell em just yank it out and send it back to the factory with the program glued to its back and get a new one, programmed and wired to your harness..no need to even call me.

They love that. I stay employed at high rates. Thats a trick at age 64 in this area,

Phil Scott

------

guns.

Correct. Manufacturers forget who their real customers are and what their TCO is.

Here agian, Microsoft percieves their customers as the companies that run servers and send you all those popups and spyware. End users are considered to be the property of a company, not a customer.

Allen Bradley and others create cost barriers to adoption to protect their current marketing channels. But in the end, challengers just attack these channels with lower cost solutions.

Being part of what AB (and Microsoft) considers to be its marketing channel, I have to decide whether or not to rely on their proprietary solutions to keep my customers locked in, or whether some other engineering firm can spec something with a lower cost. If they can, I have to decide if I can stand up to the competition or if I need a shield to hide behind.

message

AutomationDirects

you

the

directly

their

a

customer

high,

engineering

(or

get

agree

got

and what

now...

and

Bill

companies that

users are

the

cease

up

protect

challengers just

marketing

proprietary

other

they can, I

need a

Offer both options. Or offer AB and then a rider saying that there are many other systems on the market, some pretty good and with somewhat lower pricing.

Im going to start refusing to quote ...then hope...

Im only going to quote if I get to present a counter proposal to the system they are choosing. I find usually that bad decisions are being made.. and if I get to see their glorious other option and ask questions I can show them holes in it.

Around here if its a kick back deal you dont have a prayer anyway they just needed 3 quotes to show managment.

Lacking that, its the ill informed making decisions to your detriment after you spent engineering time issuing them a hard quote.

Phil Scott

------

after all, the

flowcharts; look how

program an

bad answer if you mean he has to go to AB and pay full bore retail ...especially if he only needs to do one small edit... if he has an old controller he might be able to get an old copy cheap from someone no longer using it..

or....gasp...god forbid.. he could rent it from the guy.

AB needs to get off of its high horse and be more reasonable with its software (and cease with the waste of time training for 1,000 dollars a day)...or it will be the chinese that get the rest of the plc market.

Phil Scott

>