In addition, it never fails to amaze me how companies fail to use information that's readily available to them. I've recenly been having trouble with my broadband connection which the ISP transferred to another 'network supplier'. Cutting a long story short in a couple of days I'm going to another ISP, but somewhat crazily their own plusnet.xxxx newsgroups aren't even formally monitored - even the feedback one, except for a few dedicated mebers of staff who seem to check it out *in their spare time*. Jeez !
You may or may not be correct that John's company not locating parts was a sales training issue. What I can tell you with 100% certainty is that we do value all customers, big and small, and it is our goal to meet all of our customer's needs. I realize that many people reading this will be rolling their eyes now. As a Maxim/Dallas employee I may be biased, but it is the truth. As I mentioned before, we created MDD so that customers would be able to deal directly with the manufacturer, with the expectation that we would provide better service as specialists who have a vested interest in meeting customer demands. We don't handle 10, 20 or 50 product lines. We handle Maxim and Dallas. We have direct relationships with the people responsible for getting these parts into inventory to ship to our customer's orders. Honestly, my purpose here is not just to act as damage control as someone previously stated. And although this posting may be misleading I am also not here for free advertising of MDD. I am here to solve any problems I can, and in the process I hope I can advise people/companies about who they can call for help with a Maxim or Dallas part. We are not perfect but we do care.
Allow me to ask: Why does it require a formal quote just to find out whether there are enough in stock? Why doesn't Maxim just list that?
The reason is that a design process progresses very fast these days. While doing the schematic on one PC the other usually runs the Digikey site or in case of specialty parts we enter the mfg's site. A few clicks and there is the stock situation. If zero stock we often move right on to another part because this indicates problems. Quite frankly, the old "call distributor" or "contact manufacturer" path doesn't work anymore. That concept is archaic and pretty much died in the early 90's. Clinging to this old hat is one of the reasons why many European semi mfgs are not doing very well these days. They don't seem to understand.
Example: I needed a FET and one from Europe was a perfect fit. It took me a solid two hours on the phone over several days and finally I had to ditch it. A lost design-in that this mfgs now isn't even aware of.
Another matter is leadtime. When I clicked on the MAX5204AEUB the leadtimes state "TDB". That is a big red flag for most seasoned design engineers. Maybe you could talk to your executives that it would benefit the company if the system was a bit more open. I can't see any reason why it shouldn't be.
And just in case you're reading this thinking that Joerg is an outspoken crank -- he isn't. He is outspoken, but he's no crank. His attitude reflects that of many, if not most of the circuit designers that I have worked with. "Don't use Maxim parts" is a refrain that I hear often, and with emphasis.
I'd love to see the situation change, because I think your designers cook up some pretty nifty parts. You've got a lot of history to live down, though.
If you have the pull to make it happen, a market survey of circuit designers asking the following questions should be informative:
How long have you worked in industry?
Do you think Maxim parts are well designed and of good quality?
Do you think your next design would be better using Maxim parts?
Well, that would be a good thing to find out now while you have (or can easily obtain) all the data from John's purchasing folks. Not to pummel the Maxim employee who handled it but to find out exactly what went wrong. As many here in the thread have said it seems to be quite symptomatic with Maxim so it would really pay to investigate. Then corporate might consider a decision whether to train better, improve the computer system or shut down the usual sales channel and route everything through your department because you seem to be able to find stuff while others can't.
My last experience with Maxim was regarding a switcher chip (IIRC something like the MAX608) on behalf of a client. A very long time ago. I was unable to get a straight answer out of Maxim as to when my client could have a few thousand for a pre-series. So I kicked it out. That design, BTW, is still in mass production. It was a pretty big ticket design-loss for Maxim.
MDD is a great idea and might pull Maxim out of the reputation of not being able to deliver. However, don't discount the huge warehouses. Digikey is the de-facto standard in America. Many designers keep their web site open all the time while designing. If something isn't on their server or lists zero stock they move on. My clients love the fact that at the end of a design they receive a BOM and can order all that stuff from a single vendor. They don't really want to call all the individual manufacturers.
Nobody is perfect but it's good to know that thing might be improving at Maxim. Maybe some day I could design in one of your parts again ;-)
When I was there, to check the manufacturing flow, you logged into a mainframe via telnet, and read some cryptic user kick in the groin report. The production people had binders containing such reports, printed daily, to relieve the inquiries on the mainframe. To say it was a joke is to be kind.
Have you ever wondered where those not so bright jocks, the minor league, got jobs in the real world? Well, Jack Gifford likes sports, especially baseball. So the minor league players got jobs from Jack in the non-technical areas of the company. We called these people the FOJs (Friends of Jack, a play of words on the FOBs). Actually, one of the baseball players was good guy, but he pissed of another FOJ, which was a child of one of his personal friends, and he got axed. One of the jocks was borderline psycho, something I suspect due to excessive steroids. Most of production control just can't cut it, and your supply issues are directly related to those people. That's why I say selling the company would be the best thing that could happen to it. Keep whatever engineers are left and clear out the rest of the posse.
Most of the talent has left already. When the stock was cranking, you could work around the idiots in the company. In fact, that was the only way things got done, i.e. people ignoring their boses at times since management is clueless anyway. With the stock tanking, their was no use in suffering the fools, and engineers left in droves.
Then there are the business managers. Oh, don't get me started....
In message , dated Tue, 15 Aug 2006, Rebecca of Maxim Dallas writes
Well, I suggested that; it seems the most likely and least blameworthy explanation. Please understand that I'm on your side; I wish you every success.
I'm a consultant, so 50 parts would be a BIG order for me to place. I don't have the problems that my colleagues report. But I wish they didn't have them, and I look at Maxim parts and see the quality there. So it's even more of a pity that, for whatever reason, people aren't using them, even people who really want to.
I have rather hammered on TI (as it's direct competition to Maxim), and if you bring up any old random part - let's take a direct competition part:
MAX3243E
Page at:
formatting link
Now scroll down for pricing:
Easy as pie - 0.63 to 0.74 depending on options in 1k (budgetary)
Note the simple link for samples (yes, you have to be registered, but we expect that for samples). I have taken those links many times, and they not only work, TI will ask if there are other items you may wish to try because they are in your design. (Take the link, you'll see what I mean). I am in the UK - the *longest* I have had to wait for samples is 2 days. I always get a call from my FAE within 2 more days about any new parts, as well.
Now let's go further down : Surprise! TI lists Digikey as a supplier. Hot the button, you'll go direct to the Digikey page to select and buy.
TI isn't perfect, but in the business sense they are hammering the daylights out of Maxim on their own (second sourced) products.
This is how easy Maxim has to make it, and look closely at the availability lines - I can tell up front before I even design a part in whether I can get it, either from TI **or from distribution**.
We do not doubt you are braving the Lion's den here, Rebecca, but you should bring this thread (in it's entirety) to senior management attention, and look at how you *should* do it.
If they don't listen, change jobs :)
I have noted that Maxim makes Great parts[tm], but most of us don't believe Maxim any more when they say they'll supply them. Maxim has a tough row to hoe to gain back the 'mindshare' of designers. Designers, not managers, decide who's parts get designed in, but if we can't get a part, we really get it in the neck. If we don't believe a supplier will deliver, we **don't even bother to look** at their offerings, no matter how high the 'drool' factor.
In message , dated Tue, 15 Aug 2006, snipped-for-privacy@sushi.com writes
I think it would be better if you stopped. Recounting all that can't improve Rebecca's chances of sorting out the situation; it's more likely to give the impression that the newsgroup is emotionally antagonistic to Maxim, which would enrage senior management and could put a stop to the initiative.
Absolutely, they do. TI, Analog Devices and other (mostly North American) semiconductor manufacturers are a good example on how to keep customers happy. For some reason in the worlds of mechanical stuff, construction supplies or automotive it is the other way around, there I try my darndest to find an import solution.
Fully agree. As will probably most others and pretty much all my clients.
Unavailability has cost engineers their family vacations. Non-refundable flight tickets, hotel bookings etc. That has a sobering and long-lasting effect on people because they will now not only have a boss hollering into their face but a pouting spouse and cranky kids.
Old saying in sales: If you can't deliver, someone else will.
Perhaps so, John, although I find it interesting. I would say that if Maxim's management gets enraged when criticised, maybe they aren't in the right job, but that's a separate issue :)
On the track of this thread, I can actually quantify the loss to Maxim on the last 3 designs I have done. I initially designed in a number of MAX parts - a very nice supervisor , some A-Ds, D-As and a number of general parts. The total price [to me] of those parts (which I did note before I left the office) was (for all 3 designs) =A353.87
Those units have just passed the 10k systems installed point, and seem set to go at a rate of 50k / year each for the next 2 years at least [ we currently have orders for 30k systems for the next 6 months or so, and lots of interest beyond that].
So that's about 100k x =A353.87; roughly =A35.4 million. It's actually a little higher, as one particular product sells about 2:1 to the other parts of the system as a standalone unit, but the MAX parts in there are lower cost total - my guesstimate of the total is =A36.5 million over a 2.5 years period.
So there you have it, Rebecca - across 3 designs MAX has 'lost' (because they lost the design) over =A35MM and possibly over =A36MM, simply because I don't believe they will supply me when I need it, and therefore I don't design the parts in. Just thought you might want to see some numbers from a *low volume* OEM.
To start the answers, just so (if they look, as I hope they will) MAX management can see:
over 30 years
For better than 50% of the parts, they beat or meet (spec wise) the competition
No
Because I don't believe I will be able to get the parts. They are the electronic industry equivalent of vaporware (according to my experiences over the last 15 years).
I just went to the Maxim site and clicked "check price and availability" for a few of their proprietary parts we use. One came up delivery: 17 weeks. Another was price: SUBMIT QUOTE and delivery TBD**. A third was delivery: 17 weeks.
They also practically hide their distributors and emphasize the Maxim Direct! thing.
With parts this good - and they are - they shouldn't be making it so hard for us to design them in. My production and financial people are yelling at me for using Maxim parts, and I'm the President!
And oh, as regards my DACs, I did last week give my purchasing people a list of alternate versions, and Maxim told us they couldn't do any better. I have, in the past, had luck getting Maxim mil-temp-range parts when commercial parts weren't available, but at 2-3x the price.
I'll just add my tuppence worth to that. TI do a great job of sampling parts and they do arrive *fast*.
If there's anything I need to talk to someone about there's the FAEs at TI Bedford, UK and they can help source the more exotic bits if the site deosn't have a sample option.
I gave a list of alternate uCs for a recent project to the 'manager bloke' and he looked in dismay at it and wanted to know 'which one do we tell them ( the subcontractor who sources the parts ) to use'. Jesus wept !
The initiative of talking directly to potential customers. By an employee who really cares and is willing to take risks for her company.
IOW, an initiative that Philips should have also started years ago before they had to put 80% of their semi biz on the auction block. I still believe that could have been avoided. Water under the bridge by now, I guess.
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