messing with the power connection

snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net says...


You should. It fits you perfectly, Doc.
--
Keith

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They list a 220V UK version; do they not even know what the mains Voltage is in the UK?
Unless I've misunderstood how it works the supplies from the mains and the UPS would briefly be connected in parallel; that might not be a good idea if the Voltages are not the same, and how do you ensure that they're in phase?
I haven't seen the thing, but from the description I very much doubt that it could legally to sold, or used, here in the UK.
They suggest using it to move servers; most servers have more than one power supply, so you can move them from one UPS to another while they're running anyway. I've once moved several servers from one rack to another this way while they were running. Simply replace the cables one at a time by long ones going in through the front of the cabinet, very carefully pull the server out of the rack and put it onto the other rack, one at a time replace the temporary power cables with the permanent ones in the new rack. It's not something I'd normally recommend if you can avoid it, but it can be done.
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snipped-for-privacy@mail.croydon.ac.uk wrote: <snip>

The same way that most cheap UPS do it - a moderately fast relay and a few mSec with no power at all. So, no attempt at paralleling or phase matching.
The unit can test that the secondary supply is a suitable voltage. It obviously does check that there is a secondary supply present, of some kind.
One could knock up something similar with a mains changeover relay energised via a switch connected to the secondary supply.
--
Sue








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On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:54:40 -0800 (PST) snipped-for-privacy@mail.croydon.ac.uk wrote:
| |> I must admit to being rather shocked ( ;) ) that it *could* be marketed. |> ICBW, but I very much doubt that such a product could be sold to |> anyone, through "confidential channels" or not, in the UK. It is just an |> accident waiting to happen. | | They list a 220V UK version; do they not even know what the mains | Voltage is in the UK?
Probably close enough for government work.
| Unless I've misunderstood how it works the supplies from the mains and | the UPS would briefly be connected in parallel; that might not be a | good idea if the Voltages are not the same, and how do you ensure that | they're in phase?
If they are not the same, the higher voltage source carries most of the current.
The steps to do this first require connecting a working UPS. The UPS would be generating its own power in phase with the mains. So the phase would be the same when making the transfer from mains to UPS power. At the lab, the process is reversed to release the UPS and the HotPlug. Again, the UPS is plugged into the mains, and syncs its phase. Then the computer power connection can be paralleled safely between UPS and mains. Then the UPS is disconnected.
| I haven't seen the thing, but from the description I very much doubt | that it could legally to sold, or used, here in the UK.
It is certainly dangerous. The rules might readily disallow it from being sold to the public. They may make exception for law enforcement.
| They suggest using it to move servers; most servers have more than one | power supply, so you can move them from one UPS to another while | they're running anyway. I've once moved several servers from one rack | to another this way while they were running. Simply replace the | cables one at a time by long ones going in through the front of the | cabinet, very carefully pull the server out of the rack and put it | onto the other rack, one at a time replace the temporary power cables | with the permanent ones in the new rack. It's not something I'd | normally recommend if you can avoid it, but it can be done.
Lots do have the redundant power supplies. Not all do. It could be used for that. But given the hazard, I would never recommend it except in the most dire circumstances.
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| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
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| snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote:
|> |> This is an amazing device: |> |> |> |> http://www.wiebetech.com/products/HotPlug.php |> |> |> | |> | |> | So how long have you worked for that company? |> |> Never have. I'm actually trying to figure out ways to defeat it. |> |> 1. Use a 240 volt circuit. The 240 volt version might not be in the USA. |> 2. Use 48 volt DC to the PSU. They don't even make that. |> 3. Use a power strip plug that shorts itself while not inserted. |> 4. Configure the whole disk encryption to timeout regardless of activity. |> | | | There is a *very* much easier way to defeat it. However, bearing in mind | that its use is as a forensic tool for law enforcement - such | discussions really aren't in the public interest.
Not exclusively so, otherwise it would not be offered to the public (as dangerous as it might be).
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Can you still get Mercury tilt switches in your neck of the woods?
Stick one in the power lead to to HDD. It needs to be positioned so that it's made while the computer is stationary in it's normal position but breaks the moment it is moved. At one time car alarms used to have some sort of trembler switch too. Of course you might need microswitches that open the feed when someone tries to remove the computer casing to "interfere" with this arrangement.
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Stuart Winsor

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|> |> This is an amazing device: |> |> |> |> http://www.wiebetech.com/products/HotPlug.php |> |> |> | |> | |> | So how long have you worked for that company? | |> Never have. I'm actually trying to figure out ways to defeat it. | |> 1. Use a 240 volt circuit. The 240 volt version might not be in the |> USA. 2. Use 48 volt DC to the PSU. They don't even make that. 3. Use |> a power strip plug that shorts itself while not inserted. 4. Configure |> the whole disk encryption to timeout regardless of activity. | | Can you still get Mercury tilt switches in your neck of the woods?
Sure. I all need to do is drive around out in the countryside and look for homes that have some kind of central heat, and trade them a fancy new digital thermostat for that old one.
| Stick one in the power lead to to HDD. It needs to be positioned so that | it's made while the computer is stationary in it's normal position but | breaks the moment it is moved. At one time car alarms used to have some | sort of trembler switch too. Of course you might need microswitches that | open the feed when someone tries to remove the computer casing to | "interfere" with this arrangement.
D'oh! That one was too simple for me to think of.
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How about using a nas drive and hide it so it can not be found and bolt it down.........


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snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote:

Put a jiggle switch in the PC case (or a microswitch under one of the feet) that forces a reboot if the system is moved or picked up. Put a tamper switch in the case to reboot it when opened as well.
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Paul Hovnanian mailto: snipped-for-privacy@Hovnanian.com
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wrote: | snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote: |>
|> |> This is an amazing device: |> |> |> |> http://www.wiebetech.com/products/HotPlug.php |> |> |> | |> | |> | So how long have you worked for that company? |> |> Never have. I'm actually trying to figure out ways to defeat it. |> |> 1. Use a 240 volt circuit. The 240 volt version might not be in the USA. |> 2. Use 48 volt DC to the PSU. They don't even make that. |> 3. Use a power strip plug that shorts itself while not inserted. |> 4. Configure the whole disk encryption to timeout regardless of activity. | | Put a jiggle switch in the PC case (or a microswitch under one of the | feet) that forces a reboot if the system is moved or picked up. Put a | tamper switch in the case to reboot it when opened as well.
I'll call it the "earthquake emergency fast shutdown" feature :)
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says...

Yank the plug.
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Keith

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krw wrote:

No good. What Phil is trying to prevent is a swat team kicking in his front door and immobilizing him before he can reach the plug or reset button.
They want to keep the system up and running and logged in as they transport it to their lab. Hence the fancy HotPlug system.
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snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote:

Aside from the discussions of security, defeating it, etc. there are electrical safety issues:
1) This guy claims "years of experience as an electrician" yet demonstrates opening an outlet cover and cutting a hot wire with the circuit energized. He says to use "insulated" cutters, but how many non-professionals would know that the normal hardware store cutters are not adequately insulated.
2) The hot plug device, once armed, puts 120V on the end of an exposed plug, and the receptacle (after it is removed).
This is completely irresponsible. Dangerous product, and dangerous demonstration.
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Benjamin D Miller, PE
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Ben Miller wrote:

Which is the reason Phil is fascinated by it.
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On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 13:15:12 -0500 Michael A. Terrell
| Ben Miller wrote: |>
|> > This is an amazing device: |> > |> > http://www.wiebetech.com/products/HotPlug.php |> > |> Aside from the discussions of security, defeating it, etc. there are |> electrical safety issues: |> |> 1) This guy claims "years of experience as an electrician" yet demonstrates |> opening an outlet cover and cutting a hot wire with the circuit energized. |> He says to use "insulated" cutters, but how many non-professionals would |> know that the normal hardware store cutters are not adequately insulated. |> |> 2) The hot plug device, once armed, puts 120V on the end of an exposed |> plug, and the receptacle (after it is removed). |> |> This is completely irresponsible. Dangerous product, and dangerous |> demonstration. | | | Which is the reason Phil is fascinated by it.
You've completely missed the mark. OTOH, this is not the first time you have been fascinated by making personal attacks online.
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snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote:

And you don't? YAWNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:28:32 -0500 Michael A. Terrell
| snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote: |> |> You've completely missed the mark. OTOH, this is not the first time you |> have been fascinated by making personal attacks online. | | | And you don't? YAWNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |
I don't start them. I defend when it happens.
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