Terminating stranded wires

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 20:06:39 GMT, "Ross Mac" Gave us:

That is certain.

You can say it is just being cheap but it is NEC code and it is within the U/L listing for the standard switches and receptacles used in residential or commercial wiring. Just because that is not how people do it at DoD does not mean it is not legal. Those are the guys who buy $800 hammers.

I suggest you take a much closer look at those switches and receptacles. Where the wire goes, there is a small upturned tab. It might look like just a screw but its not...its a screw actuated terminal because of that little tab, whose sole function is to prevent the wire from slipping out from under the head of the screw. That's why they're usually so hard to put a wire to, because that tab gets in the way. Also consider that UL, NEC and other codes are written for one purpose ONLY. It is not for standardization, it is to satisfy SAFETY requirements that would otherwise result in lawsuits, etc.

All the manufacturing codes, installation codes, etc, are written for safety. Now, do you honestly believe that with all the safety issues addressed in these codes, that they would say its okay to simply wrap a wire around just any old screw? THINK. It's obvious you don't recognize a terminal when you see one if you believe that the screw on receptacles and switches is just a screw.

Isn't that for solid wire as opposed to stranded?

Nobody was ever talking about any old wire or any old screw. We are talking about "stranded building wires" and "wire binding screws" on U/L listed wiring devices. If you look at them you will see that the screw is set in a pocket in the bakelite molded receptacle or snap switch case. That will provide the capture you see as necessary and I can assure you is is standard practice to use stranded (THHN or similar) with wiring devices.

Both.

EEng Are you saying that the screws that are threaded into the brass or copper plate that are connected to the contact blades and are located on the side of the devices is not a terminal? Or are you instead talking about the screws used to mount the device? I have had one inspector try to order the use of crimp connectors for connecting stranded wire but the board of permit appeals ruled against him on the advice of UL labs. By the way I have done DOD work and they SOMETIMES specify the use or crimp on connectors but specifications are not regulations or laws.

-- Tom H

They are terminals because the underside of the screw head is either scored or ridged to provide a friction grip ala wire clamp.

Or are you instead talking

The OP was asking about simply wrapping a wire around any old device screw, that's what started all this.

I think we're well past crimp ons now. I've been trying to explain the difference between a plain old screw and one that is specifically designed to accept wires.

DoD on my last job required solid THHN or THWN. NO EXCEPTIONS! The specs for the new job starting in March are the same.

Yes the appeals board ruled in your favor. What do you think the inspector will try to do on your next inspection?

Now for screw terminals. If the rest of you do not know what a "screw terminal" is or looks like then I suggest you find another field of work. Plumbing might be more up your alley. You need to know only two things: Turds cannot flow up hill and payday is Friday.

EEng Are you saying that the screws that are threaded into the brass or copper plate that are connected to the contact blades and are located on the side of the devices is not a terminal? Or are you instead talking about the screws used to mount the device? I have had one inspector try to order the use of crimp connectors for connecting stranded wire but the board of permit appeals ruled against him on the advice of UL labs. By the way I have done DOD work and they SOMETIMES specify the use or crimp on connectors but specifications are not regulations or laws.

-- Tom H

The appeal was many years ago and the local inspectors did not want to be overruled again so they quoted chapter and verse for everything they wanted changed. A telephone call to the senior inspector got all of the orders withdrawn. The senior inspector actually new the code which his field staff were trying to enforce. I had less trouble with that office after the appeal rather than more.

You left out some items from the plumbers credo. Hot on the left, cold on the right. Keep your fingers out of your mouth.

Thanks EEng!

You are the only one mentioning screws used in the assembly of enclosures. I don't know why you are fixated on the ridiculous concept that wires would be connected to those screws. We are talking about terminals here - you know, the places where wires get attached. They are part of the terminal meant to hold the wire in place, just as you said.

But it is not as you said in your first reply: "It won't pass UL/CSA/VDE or any other code. Terminate the wire by crimping/soldering it to a terminal such as a spade or ring connector then put that to the screw of the device." Note that in your response, you did not specify where the screw was. You said "the screw of the device". Now you insist that when someone else talks about a screw and identifies it as part of the device terminal, it is a screw used in the assembly of enclosures? That's bizarre.

You first call for a terminal such as a spade or ring connector - you now admit that a stranded conductor does not necessarily require a spade or ring terminal. As I showed, and you confirmed, a device such as the socket in your lamp, can have terminals with screws, and the bare copper stranded wire can be wrapped directly around those screws.

There must be thousands of lamps the Ul has tested and passed with bare copper wire wrapped around the screws in the sockets' terminals without ring or spade terminals, rendering the statement "It won't pass UL/CSA/VDE or any other code" incorrect.

I apologize if I haven't made it clear in this or previous posts.

Man what is your major malfunction? You have repeatedly turned things around completely several times now. The OP asked if it was okay to simply wrap a wire arround a device screw as in one of the screws used for assembly. I am the one that said it must be a terminal, not just an enclosure screw. For crying out loud read the thread before you jump to any more conclusions.

I don't know why you are

Have you read any of this thread at all??? I'm the one saying you CANT do that. GEEZ

We are talking about

No, you have it completely backwards. Are you stupid?

Again, you are twisting things around. I said a SCREW TERMINAL which is different than a normal, every day device screw. Holy shit you're dense.

Have you ever heard of a wire clamp screw, wire terminating screw, screw activated terminal? They are all terminals. The screw is part of the terminal mechanism but it is NOT okay to simply wrap a wire around a screw that is part ot the enclosure assembly, and THAT is what the OP originally asked about.

How can you make it clear when you don't even know who said what or about what? I am amazed at how much you have completely twisted things around to be bass ackwards from the context ot what was said.....what are you, a union electrician or something? GEEZ

Litz wire...I remember that thread....LOL....Ross

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 17:09:06 GMT, "Ross Mac" Gave us:

Yes, but you learned absolutely nothing from it.

You're right. We didn't, mainly because we already knew how stupid you are.

You now insist that the OP meant, by his term "device screws", assembly screws or enclosure screws. In your reply to his post, you told him to connect the wire to the "device screw".

Here's your post: "It won't pass UL/CSA/VDE or any other code. Terminate the wire by crimping/soldering it to a terminal such as a spade or ring connector then put that to the screw of the device."

If, in your opinion, that is what he meant, why did you advise him to connect the wire to the screw of the device?

One cannot be an expert at all things...some folks can make this admission, others will not.....Electronics is a very large field.....