Electronic locks and Crypto/Hardening?

no, I am not going ask "how to pick X lock".

but what I would like to ask is, for the people here with both physical security and tech backgrounds, is how generally well-designed most real electronic locks are, and which locks are particularly noted for being tough to get into.

Do a lot of the electronic locks out there fall prey to the "amateur cryptographer" syndrome, where the lock engineer lets geek pride goeth before the fall and decides he can design his own encryption algorithm instead of getting a time-tested one and getting pro crypto guys to check his implimentation?

if so, which locks use AES or the specialized PIC crypto algorithms that are solid?

also, how hardened are they against physical, direct electronic, or combinations of the two attacks? I realize some things are not worth taking seriously in most applications (like the "fire plasma jet from shaped-charge to defeat anti-tampering mechanisms"), but I was amazed at some of the things they thought of protecting against for tamper-resistance when I started looking at tamper-resistant computers in Anderson's "Security Engineering".

they have heard about the old cracker trick and the locks don't just fail when you just tazer the dangly bits, right?

I'm not asking for detailed specifics since that would aggrivate some people here, just a general idea that either, "most electronic locks are great/suck/suck, but you can get good ones." and if there are good ones, which ones are good.

Reply to
RobRPM2222
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It's hard finding anyone who has this information. (Which is a good illustration of why security-through-obscurity is not always a Bad Thing.)

Most electronic locks don't actually require a lot of crypto. They're generally challenge-and-response systems, and as long as the system has basic provisions to prevent exhaustively searching the key space to reconstruct that table this is likely to be Good Enough for all practical purposes. The important thing is making sure that the transformation from challenge to response isn't blatently trivial.

All are designed so that brute-force attack is more likely to kill the lock than to open it. That's relatively trivial to achieve; it's basic fail-secure.

Higher-end ones consider Tempest issues as well. Realistically, that's overkill for most applications.

Your concerns in electronic locks are more often basic reliability and mechanical strength than crypto/electronic security.

Reply to
Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam

that tends to make me nervous, because it says to me that all it would probably take is someone serious enough to do some real reverse engineering.

the more paranoid side of me tends to think that since nobody knows much, someone has already figured out a class break, and is keeping it secret.

same principle as making sure the garage door opener isn't using an 8 bit value so you can sweep for the 256 possible values in five seconds, I assume. Only with crypto added.

The important thing is making sure that the

good deal.

I assume the government drives the demand for these.

makes sense. sorry, I guess I fell into the "when your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" deal.

good to know that they are taking solid design principles into consideration, though.

Reply to
RobRPM2222

I'm not an expert, just a tinkerer.

The security of the electronic lock depends on a lot of things. You have the physical device, the technique used to enter the code, the default codes and other issues. Crypto doesn't come into play on most of them.

The best installations will use an input method that is not easily snooped, either via a shrouded keypad or keypads that scramble the numbers. They will also have a lockout interval after too many tries, accompanied by an alarm. This can backfire, but it's part of the fail-secure philosophy. Audit logs should be configured to print out or store remotely.

The best installations also require two or more items for authentication, I.E a card and a pin, or a thumb-print and voice print, etc.

Good installations will use tamper proof wiring and tamper proof lock.

If radio or infrared is used to tranmit codes, it should be encrypted in some way.

Just proximity card or just a wireless transmitter is not very secure, as it can be easily stolen/borrowed or even spoofed.

An alarm should be used in conjunction with electronic locks, just as they should with mechanical locks. Access Control VS Detection.

Hope that helps you out some. There are lots of good electronic locks in the market. Schlage, Marks, Doorking, Dynalock, Omnilock and many others make electronic stand-along locks.

Daniel

Reply to
dbs

I am not a big fan of electronic safe locks. My biggest issue with them is their reliability. They seem to have a rather high premature failure rate and they don't usually allow the locksmith many options to open them even one last time before drilling the safe.

You probably don't need a whole lot of crypto in the design as they have time delays for subsequent opening attempts, and to my knowledge there is no way to read the electronics on the inside of the lock from the outside.

I think however they do suffer from a weakness, but I certainly am not going to discuss this speculation.

Since these are closed systems why or how would you use an encryption system?

Reply to
Roger Shoaf

It's not really the same principle. It is simpler to intercept the communication from a remote garage door opener, it's also simpler to attempt to brute force it (in the electronic security sense of the term, not the crowbar sense). With most electronic locks you have to physically swipe a card or enter a code. You are typically limited in the number of bad attempts. Granted if the electronics in question are not shielded well enough the system could be vulnreable to Van Eck phreaking or a tempest attack. More practical concerns are likely the amount of force needed to physically compromise the door/jamb and the tendency of people to share security codes or leave their cards unattended. Also the degree of access or lack thereof to the wiring from the access control module to the locking solonoid(s) or mechanism. At least one La Gard electronic safe lock is vulnerable to this type of defeat. I won't mention the model number here.

The DOD lock programs specifications for locks to secure containers and vault doors protecting classified information can be found here:

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The Kaba-Mas X-09 and CD-X09 are the only two combination locks regardless of type that I am aware of meeting the specification.

The main DOD lock program page may have some other information you might find of use. It is here:

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Reply to
Putyourspamhere

I assumed they would use some form of crypto, for security on the electronic parts of the key.

Reply to
RobRPM2222

This is what I get for reading too fast, I thought you were talking about safe locks.

Reply to
Roger Shoaf

Are you talking about a swipe card based system or a keypad system?

Reply to
Putyourspamhere

Or smartcard, or Dallas chip, or other forms of token? Or fingerprint or other forms of biometric? Or...

"Electronic locks" covers a lot of ground.

Reply to
Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam

hardware, non-biometric.

Reply to
RobRPM2222

Reply to
Jim Gaynor

Yes with regard to an electronic lock which is simply keypad operated as many are I'm not really sure what the purpose of encryption would be. Now if we are talking about encrypting the information on a mag stripe that makes more sense.

Reply to
Putyourspamhere

Well one good reason to forget about the retinal scan is that down-sized employees absolutely refuse to turn in their retinas when they are discharged.

Reply to
Roger Shoaf

Not much of a problem when their downsizing employer deactivates them from the system before they are done cleaning out their desks.

Reply to
Putyourspamhere

Never watched "Judge Dread"? (yuck)

The nice thing about biometric systems is that they can be quickly reprogrammed if the employees refuse to turn in their retinas. Many of the commercial systems are networked to allow immediate updates when an employee is discharged.

Don't forget, a good biometric system will also require a token of some sort that CAN be confiscated. That can be a swipe card, key, transponder, etc. Those are systems where the retinal scan acts as much like a PIN.

Daniel

Reply to
dbs

Reply to
Jim Gaynor

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