Weslock question.

Thanks Key, good idea. I am a hobby machinest and so I already have digital calipers. Im also hopeing to make some of the tools I will need for locksmithing as time gose on.

Mike C

Wow! I want to thank all of you for the help. You all have been great and I really appreciate it.

Thank you all !!

Mike C

calipers.

locksmithing as

your digital calipers will take away any guessing. sometime ya need to file the tip so it will clear all the way down and contact the key.

g'day

your welcome. look forward to your future participation in the group. sense you already subscribe to the national locksmith mag. have you tried the TNL forum ?

will be able to get a lot of info there too. also you can also google group search just about any type subject ya like.

g'luck

No, you don't need to. The Titan will key up to a standard 5 pin Kwikset blank just fine. It is designed to stop the Kwikset blank on the bottom shoulder so the first pin in the Titan plug will line up directly under the first space on the Kwikset key. The only thing you loose is the 6th pin.

Sounds about right, looks like you are in business.

but you must use the titan blank...

IF, you are going to use BOTH titan AND KW locks, mixed then you cant use the KW blank and pin the titan to IT.

example.... TITAN lock pinned to 3 4 2 5 6 1 a KW key inserted in that ' can only see the first 5 (ALL this assumes bow to tip) so it sees the 3 4 2 5 6 and ignores the tip. (due to bottom shoulder)

a Titan key uses all 6 positions... BUT, insert the titan key in a KW plug and it only 'sees' and uses the 4 2 5 6 1 the first position is between the bow and #1 position FOR the KW spacing scheme and is in the KW plug-not available. TO a KW key blank

so, then the question begs...if you pin the titan up with a KW key, then you DROP the tip pin., making it the not quite equal of a KW plug

now, insert THAT key in the KW plug... it also need to be pinned to a 3 4 2 5 6

is this WRONG?

--Shiva--

Hey, Shiva..... you didn't make much sense here. You said that you couldn't use a KW-1 blank in a Titan lock,a nd then went right ahead and told us how to do it. Choose one -- can do it or can't, please.

BTW, I've seen a couple times Titan locks, using a Titan blank, but with the (K) bow from KW-1. Really confused me once, cause I didn't expect to be seeing Titan locks. They had showed me the key before I got there, and it sure looked like a KW-1.

you can use the 'titan pattern blank in EITHER... but cannot pin a KW blank for both...

the NEW titan blank looks like -head wise, the KW HEAD, but, look at the BOTTOM shoulder... its a titan front end..has the off set shoulder.

--Shiva--

I read this somewhere, so it's not my idea but I carry one in my tool box. It's been handy a few times.

Take a soda pop cam and remove the top an bottom. You can cut the side into aboiut a 3x4 inch sheet. Roll it into a tube (I wrapped it around one of my other followers to get the approximate curl). You now have an adjustable size, hollow follower. I use mine whenever I get that rare odd size that nothing else fits.

If the end has a gap that would allow the drivers to pop out before the follower traps them, you can use a shim to bridge the space as was mentioned previously in this thread.

Mike Thomas Lock & Key For an email list discussion of locksmith related marketing concepts join us:

You can key up a Titan to a KW1.

It requires the removal of a spring and upper pin from the Titan cylinder for the KW1 blank to work. Not advised but not impossible.

I have been to a house before that had Titan, Defiant, Weslock, Dexter, Kwikset, and some other junk lock all on the same house. The soulution to key everything the same was to use a KW1 blank.

The only problem is the Weslock cylinder. You can't use the Kwikset #1 cut blank or bottom pin in any of the locks. Remember you can use a Kwikset key in a Weslock but you can't put a Weslock key in a Kwikset cylinder or Titan because the key rides .015 lower in the keyway. It wont fit. You can see this by removing the plug from a Kwikset or Titan shell and then inserting a Weslock blank. The plug wont go back into the shell with the blank installed because the bottom of the blank is in the way. This also effects the top of the blank so that's why you can't use the #1 cut.

Now the spacing on the Dexter is a little tricky to get right but not impossible either.

I am not sure what you mean by "not quite equal to a KW plug" but when Kwikset came out with the Titan, they sold it with the idea that you could key it to an existing Kwikset key. They also sold cylinders so you could key them to Schlage C keys and some other brands.

Your last statement/question is in error. If a Titan key with bittings 3 4

2 5 6 1 is used to pin a Kwikset lock, the Kwikset would only see the last five or 4 2 5 6 1.

Personally I would tend to avoid that particular combination as having a 6 next to a 1 is bad form, especially if you use original pins and key geometry.

You can use a 1 cut, if uou have short enough bottom pins.

Remember you can use a Kwikset key

Glen,

You can key a Kwikset lock to a Weslock key. The Weslock bkank will ride lower in the plug, but if you measure depth of the cut on the Weslock key and subtract that from .5 inches, this will give you the proper theoretical pin length. The actual pin length might be a little longer by .005 or .010 in any given lock due to the actual diameter of the cylinder.

Also when cross keying sometimes you run into the need to widen the cuts a little if the spacing is slightly different, and if you have certain function Weiser or Falcon locks somtimes you need to be careful how much the key can pull out while the plug is turned or the mechanism will not turn and on others you might need to pay attention to the lower angle on the key as it might interere with the cap or clip.

The old National's were a real bugger to cross key. Good thing I don't see many of those any more.

Roger you are having a brain fart. You can't key a Kwikset lock to a Weslock key. The blank wont enter the cylinder unless you take the Weslock blank and shave .015" off the bottom. You can key a Weslock up to a Kwikset key but you cant use a #1 cut bottom pin unless it is very short. Both locks are crap the Weslock being major crap. Short pins dont dont get along well with Weslocks. You can key a Kwikset to a Weiser key. This may be what you're thinking about. I know I always get the two mixed up. I dont see them that often. Heck I may be getting the two mixed up now but I dont think so.

Damn it Glen,

I have only been keying up locks since Jimmy Carter was president, why didn't you tell me this before I had done it?

Pray tell wise sage, what is the shortest pin that Weslock uses?

I have never been able to even slide a Weiser key into a Kwikset plug as it is too thick. What is your secret?

OK Roger, I went out to the truck and got a Kwikset 660 Deadbolt, and Ilco blanks KW1, WR5, and WK2. Let's see what happens. All parts are new. OK we both had brain farts. The WR5 Weiser blank wont go into the plug with it out of the shell. You are right on that one. The WK2 Weslock blank will only go into the plug with the plug out of the shell. I was right on that one.

I don't have OEM blanks but they should be the same as the Ilco's.

As far as I can tell by this little experment before me we should both go change our underware.

.156" I think?

titan has 6 holes... using the KW key, it uses the first 5 (due to bottom shoulder, so you got to 'lose' the tip pin)

its only available IF one uses the titan blank now, would this be a 'good thing"? probably not...

--Shiva--

Well the Kwikset only has 5 holes. If a customer wanted you to install a Titan dead bolt and key it up to their Kwikset key would you do it?

If you buy a Schlage A lock it comes with 5 pin keys but it has six holes. Is this a bad thing?

If you buy an 1 1/8 inch mortise cylinder it will have six holes but it probably comes with 5 pin keys also.

I was taking issue with your contention that:

"If you are keying a Titan to a Kwikset key you drop the 6th pin. MIXING the 2 is FINE... BUT you MUST USE the Titan key blank"

You emphatically pronounced you must use the Titan blank. This is not true.

yep- included would be copying THEIR key to the titan blank, too

no- but they dont have 2 DIFFERENT key blanks that can be used... I have made 5 cut Schlage locks (pinned 5, but 6 hole) as an addition into an existing system.. the cae there was MANY folks had the 6 cut key, but this lock needed access to 1 or 2 people IN ADDITION, and they did not want to give out a 6 cut to them.. BUT at the same time the 6 cut key needed to be usable as well...

my stating that is going by the poor wear quality of the plug material, I 'feel' that it will force excessive wear in a small location, resulting in a premature wear of THAT plug only...(knowing how some of what I get to repin show for a wear pattern) Using the titan blank gives the 2 contact points, thereby increasing the 'stop contact area' by 100%, making it last longer

--Shiva--