Weslock replacement

pretty good too. I think the solid plate handleset goes for around $160.00.

As for the keys w/ do not dup on them,, around here it doesn't mean anything. Only if it is a restricted/patented key would it mean something ie; medeco or abloy... I started in a hardware store that didn't cut them, but that changed when competitors were cutting the keys for them anyway.

Hope I helped c-ya

Ross

Kwikset has a Titan handle set that is adjustable up to 8 inches. I don't recall what the minimum is but this might work.

If this is no good consider mounting a push plate on each side of the door. That will hide a multitude of sins.

Check your city and state laws concerning the duplication of 'Do Not Duplicate' keys. California laws are strict concerning the locksmithing industry. Don't listen to hardware employees posting on the internet who think they know everything about every location on the planet.

Here in Harris County Texas as far as I know it is a no no. Different states and even local codes vary. I'm not sure if the US code covers this.

If anything, it is unethical to do so if proper ID isn't given and in my opinion the folks that do it should be strung up in the highest oak tree with a proper rope.

BTW, This is for you Ross.

There are three kinds of people in this world; Those that walk by a new SUV at night and dont look in even though they could easily rip it off because the door is unlocked and the motor is running with no one inside, Those that look in the SUV and keep on walking, and, Those that take the SUV because the motor is running and he doesn't think he'll get caught. You strike me as the second type and MAYBE the third.

Where do your ETHICS stand? You say it is OK to make a Do Not Copy key. Explain yourself. So far you seem like an unethical clown. Come on clown, what is your reasoning behind your statement? I think you are a troll.

That's a hard thing to determine.

Only the person who stamped the key will know if the person is authorized. The owner of the lock also knows, but how do you prove someone is the owner?

You'd think restricted keyways would help, but it would seem that only applies when you go back to the original locksmith. He may or may not have a list of people authorized to make duplicates. ID cards can be forged or lifted for "restricted" keyways. Letterhead is laughably easy to duplicate, so a letter of authorization doesn't help either.

So, that leaves us with referring the customer back to the person who made the key. If that smith is unknown or out of business, the customer is out of luck.

It really comes down to a web of trust. a) Who (or what) can vouch for the customer's authority and b) can you trust that person or thing. I suspect a frequent customer that runs a business will not be refused if he presents a DND key. A nervous teenager, on the other hand, will be grilled and still walk out empty handed.

That said, the best you can do in many cases is simply make them present ID and sign a book. This should scare off most miscreants.

On the one job that requested DND stamps, I made a set of "proof" keys that were to be used to get duplicates made. These keys were as close to perfect as I could make them and were NOT stamped DND. They were also the only keys that did not have .015 shaved off the back of the key (SC1).

Daniel

know what gets me? a KW stamped DND... WHY?

--Shiva--

Even if there is a local or state law against duplicating such keys, one still has to worry about homemade copies. I've never heard of an ordinance against selling blank keys, and they are avalible off the internet at lower prices anyway. It doesn't take much thought to smoke a blank and file out a copy, so it should be as high of a concern as professional duplication

Obviously, ANY mechanical key blank can be created from scratch, but at least the restricted stuff can't be bought in the local hardware store!

But what if you can't find an oak? Will maple work, or how about just a telephone pole :)

If someone presents you with a DnD key what actually would satisfy you as proper ID (if it isn't your key?) I think all you can do is actually determine that they are who they say they are. Other than that, you can't really determine if they are the owner of the key, or should have access to a duplicate can you? If you do duplicate it because you feel you have received proper ID, what kind of records would you keep on such a transaction? Perhaps a photograph of them and the key, the code and a thumb print and pint of blood? :)))

-- Absinthe

I think at some point we straddle the line of security and economics. If I use a keyway that is restricted perhaps with my own keyway/sidebar etc. Then The customer gets the security (key control) associated with that, and I theoretically get the economic plus of his return business because presumably can only make that key.

If I get hit by a bus or go out of business or move to California, and now the customer needs a copy, theoretically the next locksmith that services him, should either repin the sidebar to his sidebar ala primus or pull the plugs and rekey it to his keyway. That costs money, but money is a matter of economics, and once again the customer has his perceived security. If the other locksmith will not make my keys then there is less jumping around, by the customer, and perhaps more consistency and good records keeping as to how many and who has keys to his lock...

-- Abs> > Hello,

Only an oak tree will do a good job but I guess you could settle for maple if you're in Canada or some other place up north.

I wont copy a 'do not duplicate' key at all unless I know the person is the manager or owner of the company or someone that has a right to a key, or the person is a customer of mine or another locksmith that I know. If I dont know the person then I tell him/her to go to the locksmith who made the key.

Do Not Duplicate means what it says. Why cut a DnD blank when there is a question in your mind over the persons intent?

I am fortunate not to have to worry about it because I am mobile and hardly ever am asked to cut one other than for the person that I'm doing the job for.

There is no full proof way to positively know the person you are making a DND key for is the actual authorized person, unless you origanally were the one to install the lock for the customer.

Here's what I require, since there is no law in my area that governs this, just the ethics of the duplicator. (Be it a hardware store or locksmith): I require that the person provide a letter of authorization on Preprinted letterhear stationary authorizing the person to receive a copy of the key. The recipient must be listed by name and have positive ID. If these documents are provided, I retain the letter in my file to show my authorization. One letter, one set of keys. Next time they come in, another letter must be provided. Any copies of the origional key must also be stamped DND. If even one of these requirements is not met, I'll turn down the business.

I'll often have a customer come in with a piece of tape on the bow. I need to see under the tape to copy. 90% of the time they're trying to hide the DND stamp.

It's a valid request. It probably won't be honored by half the hardware-store idiots out there with key machines, but it should be.

Simplest answer: If they can bring me to the lock and show that they're someone who has legitimate reason to have that key, OK. (And yes, that's a trip charge.) If not, they'd darned well better be able to come up with a convincing alternative.

If I'm not convinced beyond reasonable doubt, I don't copy. If they don't like that, they shouldn't have had the key stamped DND in the first place.

Note that someone walking in with depths or a code faces the same challenge.

the soul purpose of dnd. If the customer that is sold a key that is merrily stamped with dnd and not told about its ease of duplication, they are being extremely mislead. I should have stated " to check local laws, " next time i will. If they truely want a dnd key, they may purchase a lock/cylinder that offers that kind of guarantee. Also companies with this patent will prosecute if the contract between smiths is violated/broken. In my area, 1 out of 5 smith stores copied a key that had dnd with no hassle. SC1. Didn't mean to fire up anyone!

As already mentioned, shaving 15 thou or so off the bottom of each key helps a great deal and costs next to nothing. Combined with a non-standard blank, it would be fairly confusing for the average hardware store clerk.

Wal-Mart's key duplicatoion system doesn't have anything to do with bow shape though...they have a set of plastic keyway templates that they match the key to.

yep, and a 10 cut Ford fits the 5 cut blank slot too... its FUN when the GOOD key is 100 miles away, and all they got is part of the cuts on the wrong blank... LOVE walmart..

--Shiva--

Dont worry. all their machines are 12 thousands off anyway!!! LOL!