Poor design led to I-35W bridge collapse?

On Aug 4, 3:01 pm, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" wrote: ...

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An article in todays Minneapolis Star/Tribune newspaper has some disconcerting information about previous inspection reports.

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State bridge inspectors warned for nearly a decade before its collapse that the Interstate 35W bridge had "severe" and "extensive" corrosion of its beams and trusses, "widespread cracking" in spans and missing or broken bolts.

Not only was the superstructure in poor condition, but certain components were "beyond tolerable limits," and one of the bridge's piers had "tilted to the north," they reported.

By 2000, the inspectors wrote that "eventual replacement of the entire structure would be preferable" to redecking the bridge. They added: "If bridge replacement is significantly delayed, the bridge should be re-decked."

That recommendation was repeated in every report afterward, but it never happened.

Since the collapse, public attention has focused on consultant reports in 2006 and 2007 that expressed serious reservations about the bridge. But a Star Tribune review of older reports by state inspectors shows that their concerns had been growing since the mid-'90s. ... However, in every report since 2000, inspectors urged the state to replace bolts in a specific area of the bridge, a job listed each year under "Immediate Maintenance Recommendations." .... "The fatigue cracks in the approach spans that occurred in the late

1990s were addressed by repairs and retrofitting of connections," MnDOT spokesman Kevin Gutknecht said in a written statement. He added that early replacement of the bridge was not considered in part because "no fatigue cracks had occurred in the main truss spans." ... In 1996, reports took on an urgent tone In many cases the reports simply lay out a long list of problems found rather than rating their severity, but in 1996 the inspectors began to take an urgent tone. Noting that a pier supporting steel spans had tilted to the north, the inspectors warned then, "As this will not be repaired in the near future, this area should be closely inspected!"

In 1998, inspectors wrote that "numerous fatigue cracks were found" in the approach spans on the north and south sides of the bridge, which was then three decades old. The report said the cracks were drilled out and the fractured beams reinforced with bolted plates. ... The 1999 report said those cracks were among "areas of major concern," adding that "due to the widespread cracking these areas will now be inspected on six-month intervals."

Later reports recommended only annual inspections. Gutknecht said no further cracking was reported after November 2000, so the monitoring cycle was increased. ... The university's research concluded in 2001 that "fatigue cracking of the deck truss is not likely",...."As a result, MnDOT does not need to prematurely replace this bridge because of fatigue cracking, avoiding the high cost associated with such a large project." ... But MnDOT inspectors continued to express concern about fatigue cracking after the university report and the department asked the engineering design consultant URS to review the bridge's condition.

URS in 2006 expressed concerns that a serious fatigue crack might go undetected because of the difficulty in inspecting parts of the bridge that were difficult to reach. URS recommended steel plating as a fix.

But MnDOT engineers asked URS to come up with other options and the department ultimately chose an alternative that called for increased inspections and repairing any problems found. URS called that option the "most cost efficient," but warned that "the critical issue of this approach is to ensure" that inspectors don't miss any measurable flaws.

Chief bridge engineer Dan Dorgan said previously that MnDOT chose the inspection option because it worried that drilling to add plates might weaken the bridge.

Reply to
Mike H
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Structural / Mechanical design engineering for Space launched Composite Structures,about 30 years.

Regards, Narasimham

Reply to
Narasimham

Space Shuttle, weapons, or "domestic" structures? Anything that does reuse, multiple cycles (like the external tank of the SS was supposed to)?

I was flabbergasted by this:

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never really thought about carbon composites "corroding".

David A. Smith

Reply to
dlzc

(snip)

One of the primary factors was the obstruction of traffic just beyond the bridge due to a road repair project that was under way.

The bridge became stacked with stalled or barely moving vehicles that lurched ahead, then braked to a stop from time to time, in unison. This put a VERY high level of stress on the bridge support structure. This, hoppy toad traffic movement and the maximum overload condition in conjunction with the aged and deteriorated condition of the support structure was more than the bridge could tolerate.

If we learn anything from this tragedy at all, it should be that traffic MUST be controlled and not allowed to stack up on these old weakened bridges. If a repair project is under way, they MUST put a traffic control crew somewhere just before the vehicles move onto the bridge, then let only a controlled number of vehicles move through at a steady speed with no mass vehicle stop and go motion on the bridge.

If a repair project dictates that the bulk of traffic must grind to a halt, then surge ahead, then grind to a halt again and again, make those bulk traffic pulses occur somewhere other than on the bridge.

Gordon

Reply to
Gordon

Actually, it's 1/4 the diameter squared.

What does "pressure" area have to do with shear strength?

At the extremes, an infinitely short pin can't have enough force applied to it to shear it and an infinitely long pin can't support its own weight.

Reply to
Everett M. Greene

Hardly 1/5. There is a fair amount of traffic, but it's not like urban freeway traffic.

Rarely exposed to freezing, probably never de-iced, but continually exposed to sea spray.

Reply to
Matthew Beasley

Measures of strength such as yield strength, ultimate strength, etc, are given in units of pressure, such as pascals or p.s.i. That's because a wider structure can support a stronger force than a smaller one.

Bob Clark

Reply to
Robert Clark

I've tried to access this file a couple times over the past few days. It always ends with the lower half blank. I've tried 2 different browsers.

Firefox puts up an error message that says "The connection was reset The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading."

I finally got enough to load to see the roller connection. (The bottom 20% or so is still blank.)

Nobody has commented about it's size compared to the ladder next to it. It doesn't look as small as one of the original comments would lead you to think.

What if the rollers locked up so that the connection became rigid?

What if the rollers only locked on one side and allowed the other side to slide turning the roller pedestal around the vertical axis? or lifting one side?

I'm a EE and know the reason for such a connection from my statics course (40 years ago) but having never applied such a connection I have no knowledge of the details of the design. What are the 'gotchas'?

Plenty of corrosion around the outside (especially compared to the connections further up the arch) but what do the rivets/bolts look like?

Reply to
Fred Lotte

Linear thermal coefficient of expansion for carbon steel is aobut 10 ^

-6/=B0K. At roughly 140 meters for the central span, and an environmental temperature range of well below 100=B0K, the roller would have to allow about 15 cm movement (someone please check my work. That looks like it could be contained within pictured supports.

Of course, there may be other movement to accommodate, such as settling over time and deformation under load. I have no idea how to compute that.

Reply to
Richard Henry

Someone simply asking "I'm interested in reading what your area of expertise is" should not be considered a sniper. That is a very legitimate question.

Reply to
Mark Mathu

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Is there a designed life span of the bridge? and an expected failure mode after the expiry of this period? To me it appears a sound old structure does not materially lose its structural strength,stiffness or stability and fall off just by weathering or continous use. People get so used to seeing and photographing it and want to see something new, even if that means taking it apart.A well designed structures must be made to be destroyed after its defined/designed lifespan,if it would not serve as any sort of a city heritage or memorial.

Narasimham

Reply to
Narasimham

Are you kidding? Everything weathers. And continuous use would wear anything down; those bridges aren't made out of diamond. Go to a bridge near you and look at it.

/BAH

Reply to
jmfbahciv

I hear that DOT has now issued an alert to authorities concerning parking heavy road repair equipment on bridges while repair work is in progress (!!) There has been some reporting about this bridge swaying during its last hours. It is I admit, plain scary to estimate the longitudinal force associated with a bumper to bumper traffic line on a bridge stopping and starting. That's not a case that figures in the usual design loads, I suspect.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

Reply to
Brian Whatcott

On Aug 8, 8:40 pm, Fred Lotte wrote: ...

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The bearings that were to allow the bridge to move were no longer functional and hadn't been for many years.

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State bridge engineer Dan Dorgan said the bearings could not have been repaired without jacking up the entire deck of the bridge. Because the bearings were not sliding, inspectors concluded the corrosion was not a major issue.

The history of the bridge based on inspections outline also shows this:

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Reply to
Mike H

Bearings have a much shorter service life than the rest of the bridge, so they have to be changed now and then, and that is before they get stuck. There is a reason, like the temperature forces, for not using rigid connections in the first place. =20

Things can get broken.

They have a much shorter service life than the rest of the bridge, are expensive and sensitive to corrosion.

When you need a sliding connection and don't have the loads from a bridge, a building, can often cheaper bearings be used, like one consisting of just two steel plates with teflon between.

--=20

Anders Lager=E5s

Reply to
Anders Lagerås

That 15 cm seems high to me. Assuming 10^-6/=B0K number and a 100=B0K temperature change, then the bridge would have changed by

140*100/1,000,000 =3D 1.4 cm.

Bob Clark

Reply to
Robert Clark

The image showing a close up of the joint can also be seen on the original web page:

I-35W Bridge Historic I-35W Mississippi River Crossing Minneapolis, MN

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Bob Clark

Reply to
Robert Clark

That would be true if we were discussing a column. For a bridge hinge pin, we're effectively talking about a horizontal beam. The beam/pin has all the (gravity) load applied along a line along the top of the pin. There is no "area" to discuss with this type of loading.

Reply to
Everett M. Greene

Here are zoomed in photos with arrows pointing to the joints. Notice that for the I-35W bridge joint there is a severe narrowing near the top.

Bob Clark

I-35W bridge joint.

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Desoto bridge joint.

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Reply to
Robert Clark

Actually, materials have defined limits for yield in tension,shear, bearing etc. If a pin bearing exceeds the required limit bearing stress, its diameter is increased, in bridges, as in aircraft.

Brian W

Reply to
Brian Whatcott

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