$4 dollar gas and its effects on metalworking

nick hull wrote:


You almost stated it right. It isn't that everything costs more. Gold is still gold. The money is no longer worth a shit.
--


Ron Thompson
Riding my '07 XL883C Sportster
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It's the US government fighting a war without raising taxes to pay for it, combined with brainless bankers in an unregulated system giving huge amounts of money to people with no means of paying it back, and collecting huge bonuses for "pulling the chain" on the american, and world, financial system.
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<snip> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 02:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools

<snip>
===============This is yet another way the provident, solvent and thrifty take it in the shorts.
Why should Frontier keep flying? The only thing they will do is squeeze the hourly employees harder and minimize maintenance/cleaning, after getting huge "debtor in possession" loans at extortion rates.
This is the second bankruptch for Frontier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_Airlines_ (1950-1986) On October 24, 1986, Continental Airlines, a Texas Air unit, bought both People Express and Frontier Airlines. They were merged into Continental on February 1, 1987 along with New York Air and all other Continental airline subsidiaries. Frontier's failure also doomed People Express, New York Air and four commuter carriers. It would take years to settle the pension disputes and lawsuits. Efforts were still being made in 2007 to settle ESOP accounts.
history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_Airlines On April 10, 2008, Frontier announced that it filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy due to its credit card processor, First Data, attempting to withhold significant proceeds from ticket sales. First Data suddenly decided that it would withhold 100% of the carriers proceeds from ticket sales beginning May 1st.[2] According to Frontier's press release, "This change in practice would have represented a material change to our cash forecasts and business plan. Unchecked, it would have put severe restraints on Frontier's liquidity..." Its operation continues uninterrupted, though, as Chapter 11 bankruptcy protects the corporation's assets and allows restructuring to ensure long-term viability.
This sounds like a classic mob "squeeze play." In another thread someone suggested that the credit card executives would be up before congress explaining/justifying their role in the credit debacle. This action by First Data may well be what starts that particular ball rolling. 100% holdback????
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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wrote:

It's easy to misinterpret the airline situation. The simple fact is that there were too many airlines to begin with. The credit-card situation they face actually is the result of a consumer *protection*, not a vulnerability.
-- Ed Huntress
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wrote:

=======The Administration and Congress have much the greater responsibility because of the huge increase in the national debt. The Fed did indeed inject huge amounts of liquidity into the stock/bond/commodities markets to prevent a disaster [which may have just delayed it, the ball is still in play...], but in theory at least, these are "loans" to be paid back, and the money removed from circulation.
Both the Clinton and Bush administration and the Congress also have the responsibility for removing time [depression] tested limitations on the financial markets such as Glass-Steagall, and for introducing "Industry Friendly" regulations to oversee the introduction of novel products such derivatives, CDSs, and "synthetic structured collateralized debt obligations," the counter-parties and trustees of which all seem to be located in Aruba, beyond the reach of US regulation or subpena.
Think of "the Fed" as the fire department when your house catches fire. They come in, spray water everywhere, and perhaps chop holes in the roof and knock windows out. They do however get the fire out, although they make a mess in doing so.
In this context, the old adage can be updated to "an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure." Desperate situations demand desperate remedies, and if you don't like the remedies, avoid the situation.
The home owner has at least some responsibility here such as having a working smoke alarm, practicing safe storage of hazardous materials, keeping their electrical appliances in good repair, noting hot spots on the wall or hot electrical outlets, looking for the UL label on electrical items, etc.
Now a question to you -- how many of the incumbents in congress (that are running for another term) will be re-elected, and why?
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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nick hull wrote:

I think I can do that. Give me a day or so to find the right graphic.
Richard
--
(remove the X to email)

Now just why the HELL do I have to press 1 for English?
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nick hull wrote:

Well, that was easier than I expected.
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/proof.htm
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Would an acronym do?
An old friend has invented a new one for describing the impact of new/revised government regulations: BOHICA.
BOHICA stands for Bend Over - Here It Comes Again!
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You can thank the various governments (state & federal) for keeping it as low as it has been for the past half-century. After all, they COULD have imposed the high taxes that are common in Europe.

Closer to the early '80s when the question "How do the folks in Detroit get 15 adults into a VW Beetle?" was answered by "Easy - tell them it's headed to Texas!"

Wages in many fields/areas were already hyperinflated.
This is/was the cause of much of the "Outsourcing" and the "Offshore Relocation" mania of the last 2 decades that saw Union jobs replaced by non-Union jobs.
When burger-flippers expect $10+ /hr. to ask "Do you want fries with that?" you should already know that the economy is in a World of Hurt.
When Illegal Immigrants earn enough money to buy mid-range homes you should already know that the economy is in a World of Hurt.
When Welfare pays better than working you should already know that the economy is in a World of Hurt.
When the Democrat Party was bought by the Peoples' Republic of China over a decade ago you should expected that the economy would be in a World of Hurt as the US Standard of Living was brought down to PRC levels.
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And when CEOs make billions for loosing 10s of billions of dollars you KNOW the economy is in a HUGE world of hope. When CEOs start to settle for a reasonable level of pay companies can afford to manufacture things here again, and workers can work for an "honest" wage, and not see the extreme difference between what they earn PRODUCING and what CEOs earn screwing things up.
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On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 02:46:56 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Eregon

WhatEVER are you talking about? When's the last time you saw a silver-haired doctor? I see pictures of them in the newspaper every week. Most doctors have a 40 year run, minimum. (Unless they, too, suffer heart problems like their patients.)
-- It is better to wear out than to rust out. -- Bishop Richard Cumberland
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Don't bet on it, booby.
The closest that they could come to it would be to anchor a hospital ship offshore. [Remember Project Hope?]
With the current cost of fuel, it'd be cheaper for them to simply bring the foreign doctors over here. <G>
For that matter, booby, there are enough foreign doctors practicing medicine in the US to totally populate a 3rd-world country. <EG>
MY Insurance Company has already made it very clear - in the contract - that they don't like me to go to a doctor that's out of state, much less out of country. <VBG>
I am curious about one thing, Troll: have you EVER been proven correct and, if so, did it concern anything to do with metalworking?
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IOW, your answer is a resounding "NO!". <grin>
I didn't think so.

As usual, you're 100% wrong. <Grin>
I just try to aid you in your quest for Self-Improvement.

Nope!
Unless you're a Dumberncrap, of course...
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Darn spell checker!!!!!!!
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clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote in

You're forgiven. <g>
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Trying to keep the Dumberncraps from spending MY money!
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Since the Dumberncraps took over the Congress it's THEIR debt. <EG>
The Republican Party is paying its own way but the Dumberncraps still expect their parent organization [The Peoples' Republic of China] to subsidize them. <VEG>
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So what's new about that?
The Dumberncraps - under Franklin Delano Roosevelt - were the first to go into hock - in support of FDR's "New Deal" giveaways - and, then continued it all of the way through Nicaragua, Haiti, WW2 and the Korean war.
Although Eisenhower managed to balance the budget during his second term, John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson went right back to spending money twice as fast as it came in on another war - VietNam - and Johnson's "Great Society" and "War on Drugs".
Slick Willie Clinton took a page out of Hollywood and played "Wag The Dog" in Yugoslavia in order to get the public's mind(?) off of his philandering. (US Forces are STILL there.)
Even the current hostilities with Al-Queda started on Slick Willie's watch when, in 1993, Muslim Terrorists detonated a car bomb (actually a van) in the underground parking garage beneath the World Trade Center in New York - the same target that they finally succeeded in taking down 8 years later.
Of course this war is being fought on credit! But, then, the US Government has been operating on credit since John Kennedy took office in 1961. <G>
If it weren't for the massive giveaways - subsidies, welfare, foreign aid, etc. - and the bloated bureaucracies built around them then the current level of taxation would provide sufficient funds to not only operate the government but eliminate the National Debt.
The "cost" of doing this would also be advantageous: virtually every elected politician - and their staffs - would be thrown out of office.
Unfortunately, their replacements would immediately resume overspending.
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ROFLMAO!!!!
If the Dumberncraps have all that money, why were they so dead-set against re-running the Florida Primary because of the co$t? <G>
'Course, we all know that the reason that YOU never have an issue with the Dumberncrap Disease - Anthrax (aka Hoof-n-Mouth) - is 'cause you have problems getting your foot that far up your ass! <Evil Grin>
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On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 21:49:13 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada quickly quoth:

How is that working out for y'all?
-- Save the whales! Trade them for valuable prizes.
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