$4 dollar gas and its effects on metalworking

starting a rerun of a previous thread

One of the major problems is that the US citizens are *ALREADY* paying for universal single payer health care based on the fraction of GDP we spend. Indeed we spend about 50% more as a % of GDP than the other nations that have such care such as the UK, Canada, France, etc.

The problem is that much of this is "overhead" with no relationship to providing medical care. Indeed, we appear to be spending more money denying medical care than what it would cost to just go ahead and provide it. And then there are the multimillion dollar bonuses for the executives of the HMOs who's main function is to deny healthcare...

Unka' George [George McDuffee]

------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

I wouldn't sell them. They would make a great novelty give away.

Its the cost of doing business.

Gunner

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 09:50:42 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner quickly quoth:

It's one possible choice, but, hey, I wouldn't want to live in HelL.A. either. Not a chance.

-- Save the whales! Trade them for valuable prizes.

I have a great idea, get government out of things completely. The only thing the government seems to be able to do is introduce market distortions that ultimately cost us.

I have far more faith in Exxon than Congress.

Wes

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:53:01 -0400, Wes wrote:

========== While this is a great sound bite and has considerable emotional appeal to us conservatives, where it falls down is the assumption that somehow a giant corporation is not a government.

Why is socio-economic and cultural engineering any better from the Exxons of the world than from the governments of the world?

Arrange the countries by GDP, from smallest to largest and calculate the cumulative totals. Now compare this to Exxon's gross sales.

GDP Country BC$US 2007 Cumm $US rank (low to high) Kiribati $0.073 $0.073 1 São Tomé and Príncipe $0.142 $0.215 2 Tonga $0.219 $0.434 3 Dominica $0.268 $0.702 4 Guinea-Bissau $0.343 $1.045 5 Solomon Islands $0.358 $1.403 6 Gambia, The $0.379 $1.782 7 Samoa $0.387 $2.169 8 Vanuatu $0.421 $2.590 9 Comoros $0.436 $3.026 10 Timor-Leste, Dem. Rep. of $0.472 $3.498 11 St. Kitts and Nevis $0.520 $4.018 12 St. Vincent and the Grenadines $0.528 $4.546 13 Grenada $0.553 $5.099 14 Liberia $0.732 $5.831 15 Seychelles $0.733 $6.564 16 Djibouti $0.834 $7.398 17 St. Lucia $0.958 $8.356 18 Guyana $0.978 $9.334 19 Burundi $0.989 $10.323 20 Maldives $1.024 $11.347 21 Antigua and Barbuda $1.079 $12.426 22 Bhutan $1.164 $13.590 23 Belize $1.304 $14.894 24 Cape Verde $1.367 $16.261 25 Eritrea $1.425 $17.686 26 Sierra Leone $1.549 $19.235 27 Lesotho $1.588 $20.823 28 Central African Republic $1.647 $22.470 29 Suriname $2.234 $24.704 30 Togo $2.393 $27.097 31 Swaziland $2.674 $29.771 32 Mauritania $2.747 $32.518 33 Rwanda $2.836 $35.354 34 Fiji $3.289 $38.643 35 Tajikistan $3.353 $41.996 36 Malawi $3.441 $45.437 37 Kyrgyz Republic $3.488 $48.925 38 Barbados $3.739 $52.664 39 Mongolia $3.854 $56.518 40 Lao People's Democratic Republic $4.008 $60.526 41 Moldova $4.021 $64.547 42 Niger $4.219 $68.766 43 Guinea $4.568 $73.334 44 Haiti $5.295 $78.629 45 Benin $5.425 $84.054 46 Nicaragua $5.675 $89.729 47 Papua New Guinea $5.914 $95.643 48 Chad $6.426 $102.069 49 Malta $6.450 $108.519 50 Bahamas, The $6.586 $115.105 51 Namibia $6.707 $121.812 52 Congo, Republic of $6.848 $128.660 53 Burkina Faso $6.858 $135.518 54 Mali $6.936 $142.454 55 Mauritius $7.030 $149.484 56 Madagascar $7.306 $156.790 57 Macedonia, Former Yugoslav Republic of $7.322 $164.112

58 Armenia $7.802 $171.914 59 Mozambique $8.132 $180.046 60 Cambodia $8.488 $188.534 61 Equatorial Guinea $9.512 $198.046 62 Georgia $9.553 $207.599 63 Nepal $9.627 $217.226 64 Congo, Democratic Republic of $9.850 $227.076 65 Afghanistan, Rep. of. $9.933 $237.009 66 Honduras $10.059 $247.068 67 Albania $10.310 $257.378 68 Gabon $10.342 $267.720 69 Paraguay $10.347 $278.067 70 Senegal $10.701 $288.768 71 Jamaica $10.737 $299.505 72 Zambia $10.887 $310.392 73 Uganda $11.141 $321.533 74 Botswana $11.347 $332.880 75 Brunei Darussalam $12.515 $345.395 76

is #2 on the Fortune 500 @ 347,254.0 (sales), 39,500.0 (profits) [billions of US$] so their gross sales are equal to the GDP of the first 76 countries ranked by increasing GDP. Anyone care to take a guess at what percent of the world's population live in these 76 countries?

Exxon should have a seat in the United Nations, perhaps as a permanent member of the security council.

FWIW -- Walmart was #1 with 351,139.0 billion$ in sales &

11,284.0 billion in profits. The total 2007 gross sale of both these two corporations are 898,383.0 billion$ US or equal to the GDP of the first 103 countries...

Unka' George [George McDuffee]

------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:07:25 -0500, F. George McDuffee wrote: ...[snip various country stats from

351 trillion dollars is a pretty good sales total. More than seven times as much as the world-wide 48 trillion dollar GDP!

I dont live there. I just work there.

Gunner

It already IS a public utility in that the govt makes more profit thru taxes than the gas companies. ;(

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:54:44 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner quickly quoth:

Right, that's your lifestyle/business choice, to commute vs. living there. But with the motorhome down there, why do you still rack up so much fuel use? (Unless you're driving the van all the time now, in which case I understand why.)

-- Save the whales! Trade them for valuable prizes.

Because I drive my truck, at least 100 miles every day. Im a self employed machine tool repair tech, with a growing clientel of plant maint/service customers.

They are scattered all over Orange County, LA County, Riverside and San Bernadino counties, an area I assume you realize is far bigger than many/most east coast states

The van only comes out for special occasions, where I need the heavy gear.

Gunner

NIce try, but that is an old image. Actually saw it on a local car earlier in the week. Same color scheme, too.

Jon

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 09:48:15 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner quickly quoth:

Ah, I didn't realize you had that large an area to cover.

That I do, having lived in Vista for 35 years.

Bueno.

-- Save the whales! Trade them for valuable prizes.

\ The problem isn't expensive gas but expensive everything - inflation at work. You need an Icon showing the Fed screwing everyone, they are the one who create inflation.

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

You almost stated it right. It isn't that everything costs more. Gold is still gold. The money is no longer worth a shit.

It's the US government fighting a war without raising taxes to pay for it, combined with brainless bankers in an unregulated system giving huge amounts of money to people with no means of paying it back, and collecting huge bonuses for "pulling the chain" on the american, and world, financial system.

** Posted from **

=========

The Administration and Congress have much the greater responsibility because of the huge increase in the national debt. The Fed did indeed inject huge amounts of liquidity into the stock/bond/commodities markets to prevent a disaster [which may have just delayed it, the ball is still in play...], but in theory at least, these are "loans" to be paid back, and the money removed from circulation.

Both the Clinton and Bush administration and the Congress also have the responsibility for removing time [depression] tested limitations on the financial markets such as Glass-Steagall, and for introducing "Industry Friendly" regulations to oversee the introduction of novel products such derivatives, CDSs, and "synthetic structured collateralized debt obligations," the counter-parties and trustees of which all seem to be located in Aruba, beyond the reach of US regulation or subpena.

Think of "the Fed" as the fire department when your house catches fire. They come in, spray water everywhere, and perhaps chop holes in the roof and knock windows out. They do however get the fire out, although they make a mess in doing so.

In this context, the old adage can be updated to "an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure." Desperate situations demand desperate remedies, and if you don't like the remedies, avoid the situation.

The home owner has at least some responsibility here such as having a working smoke alarm, practicing safe storage of hazardous materials, keeping their electrical appliances in good repair, noting hot spots on the wall or hot electrical outlets, looking for the UL label on electrical items, etc.

Now a question to you -- how many of the incumbents in congress (that are running for another term) will be re-elected, and why?

Unka' George [George McDuffee]

------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

I think I can do that. Give me a day or so to find the right graphic.

Richard

Well, that was easier than I expected.