$4 dollar gas and its effects on metalworking

Oh the mighty Monty Python. I've never been a GREAT fan of his humour.

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clare at snyder dot ontario do
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Do you apply that principle to gun control, too?

-- Ed Huntress

Reply to
Ed Huntress

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch wrote on Mon, 14 Apr 2008 11:58:13 -0700 in rec.crafts.metalworking :

Thanks gunner.

"Citizen" Jim needs to have someone explain, probably with small words and simple pictures. how really stupid it is to wait until something bad happens, and then launch a police investigation. I figure a Tanya Harding episode applied personally might get the message though.

"The ear of the fool is on his back" - an Egyptian Proverb I recall from my travels.

pyotr

-- pyotr filipivich "I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender whether they served zombies he said, ?Sure, what'll you have?'" from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

Reply to
pyotr filipivich

Too_Many_Tools wrote in news:cdba8a99-6057-4fc7- snipped-for-privacy@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

Since the Dumberncraps took over the Congress it's THEIR debt.

The Republican Party is paying its own way but the Dumberncraps still expect their parent organization [The Peoples' Republic of China] to subsidize them.

Reply to
Eregon

And YOU need to have somebody explain in real simple words and pictures that looking into the water bottles of every single airline passenger and checking their shoes and wasting 30 million dollars on a database that detains a U.S. congressman and a 6 month old baby as potential terrorists, is NOT going to stop the terrorist threat so long as our borders and ports remain open or only partially guarded.

Neither is wasting one trillion dollars in a war waged in the wrong county.

Citizen Jimserac

Reply to
Citizen Jimserac

Too_Many_Tools wrote in news:e704d2be-ce63-4204- snipped-for-privacy@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

So what's new about that?

The Dumberncraps - under Franklin Delano Roosevelt - were the first to go into hock - in support of FDR's "New Deal" giveaways - and, then continued it all of the way through Nicaragua, Haiti, WW2 and the Korean war.

Although Eisenhower managed to balance the budget during his second term, John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson went right back to spending money twice as fast as it came in on another war - VietNam - and Johnson's "Great Society" and "War on Drugs".

Slick Willie Clinton took a page out of Hollywood and played "Wag The Dog" in Yugoslavia in order to get the public's mind(?) off of his philandering. (US Forces are STILL there.)

Even the current hostilities with Al-Queda started on Slick Willie's watch when, in 1993, Muslim Terrorists detonated a car bomb (actually a van) in the underground parking garage beneath the World Trade Center in New York - the same target that they finally succeeded in taking down 8 years later.

Of course this war is being fought on credit! But, then, the US Government has been operating on credit since John Kennedy took office in 1961.

If it weren't for the massive giveaways - subsidies, welfare, foreign aid, etc. - and the bloated bureaucracies built around them then the current level of taxation would provide sufficient funds to not only operate the government but eliminate the National Debt.

The "cost" of doing this would also be advantageous: virtually every elected politician - and their staffs - would be thrown out of office.

Unfortunately, their replacements would immediately resume overspending.

Reply to
Eregon

Too_Many_Tools wrote in news:f5ea6fda-9363-4a11- snipped-for-privacy@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:

Don't bet on it, booby.

The closest that they could come to it would be to anchor a hospital ship offshore. [Remember Project Hope?]

With the current cost of fuel, it'd be cheaper for them to simply bring the foreign doctors over here.

For that matter, booby, there are enough foreign doctors practicing medicine in the US to totally populate a 3rd-world country.

MY Insurance Company has already made it very clear - in the contract - that they don't like me to go to a doctor that's out of state, much less out of country.

I am curious about one thing, Troll: have you EVER been proven correct and, if so, did it concern anything to do with metalworking?

Reply to
Eregon

Too_Many_Tools wrote in news:d532ef53-e6d4-415e- snipped-for-privacy@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

As usual, you're misquoting.

The fifth word is "liberal" - not "conservative" - and the original has been proven repeatedly BY YOU.

Reply to
Eregon

Agreed!

CJ

Reply to
Citizen Jimserac

Well, yes - agree. They have largely given up, they have seen their elders engage in endless vituperative debate, and nothing happens except things get worse..why should they give a rats arse about the dinosaurs, thrashing around, making lots of noise, but basically doing nothing except blaming "someone else"....so, can opening themselves, listening to sound bites, me too isms - desperately hoping, without any real conviction, that someone will offer hope and inspiration, not just more lies and broken promises.........

$4 gas is the least of our problems.....

Andrew VK3BFA.

Reply to
vk3bfa

Given up? The little skulls filled with mush never started. They were educated to be leftards..which took too much effort so they have simply become semimoble couch potatos who bow to the latest fashion trends which make them all look the same, with little incentive to do anything other than f*ck, get drunk and have a ready supply of ringtones to download.

Gunner

Reply to
Gunner

Too_Many_Tools wrote in news:5fb02b99-1a87-4fb8- snipped-for-privacy@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:

ROFLMAO!!!!

If the Dumberncraps have all that money, why were they so dead-set against re-running the Florida Primary because of the co$t?

'Course, we all know that the reason that YOU never have an issue with the Dumberncrap Disease - Anthrax (aka Hoof-n-Mouth) - is 'cause you have problems getting your foot that far up your ass!

Reply to
Eregon

Too_Many_Tools wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@e67g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:

IOW, your answer is a resounding "NO!".

I didn't think so.

As usual, you're 100% wrong.

I just try to aid you in your quest for Self-Improvement.

Nope!

Unless you're a Dumberncrap, of course...

Reply to
Eregon

Too_Many_Tools wrote in news:bfcb9ebc-1d5a-48a4- snipped-for-privacy@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:

Whaddayoucare?

The ChiComs will pick up the tab for the Dumberncraps!

You won't have to shell out anything.

Reply to
Eregon

And here we see a rare agreement between my views and Gunner's. BOTH liberals and the right were involved in the deceptive "re-engineering" of our educational system over a period of decades starting over 100 years ago.

Real education, it was decided, was for the elite classes and what was needed was a system of "socialization" and indoctrination to produce happy non-thinking obedient worker drones and cannon fodder for the military.

I MOST strongly suggest the following book, which is totally online and free to read with nice chapter summaries (see link below), written by a New York public school system teacher of 30 years who did his research and exposed the entire dirty BIG secret (hint: keep an eye on those benevolent money granting foundations ) which is supposed to be a book about our education system but which, for me, was a whole lot more, so insightful and incisive are the author's observations: "The Underground History of American Education" by John Taylor Gatto

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Even if you disagree with his idea of how our educational "system" came to be as it is now, despite his rather compelling documentation and arguments, I suspect you will find his social commentary, and explication of our modern culture a revelation.

"Those vast violence ridden boredom and envy filled social warehouses that our education system has become, and the motivations and theories of those who purposely designed it that way, eventually substituting the dumbing down of the young workers to be as a goal superiour to the popularly expected one of educating the young, are all explained though the perpetrators of this vast self aggrandizing deception would probably prefer to remain in the "background"." from "The Underground History of American Education" by John Taylor Gatto

Citizen JImserac

Reply to
Citizen Jimserac

The logical problem with this kind of claim is that the people making it, including Gunner and, perhaps, you, are all products of this "indoctrinating educational system." Presumably you then are either a happy non-thinking obedient worker drone, or cannon fodder.

It's clear that most people are aware of what the problems are; complaints about education are nearly universal, so it's safe to say that nearly everyone else recognizes the same things that you do. Maybe education hasn't hurt them none; they can read the writing on the wall. Somehow, they've escaped the grand conspiracy to turn them into mindless drones.

-- Ed Huntress

Reply to
Ed Huntress

=========== The operational phrase here is "complaints about education are nearly universal." These have existed as long as there has been "education," and include such "gems" as whining about the shift from instruction in Latin to instruction in the vernacular, the introduction of printed texts because it interfered with the development of the student's memory, and the elimination of Attic Greek as a HS graduation requirement.

Before I retired, I spent the last 15 years at the post secondary [community college] level first as an adjunct instructor, then a full time instructor, and administrator [Registrar and Director of Institutional Research]. In many cases, much of the [new] "educational" money received is not used for what most people would classify as instruction purposes, i.e. either direct instruction or up-graded facilities, but rather to generate increasing numbers of reports and data, which no one ever reads or acts on.

We now have entire departments involved with data collection and report filing, including student loans. Indeed, at my last school, the Student Financial Aid Office [separate from institutional accounting] had more employees and worked more hours that the local Credit Union, that handled about 10X the dollar volume. Note that this significant growth in non-educational activity was not voluntary on the part of the institution or its Board of Regents, but were imposed by funding or other regulatory/accreditation agencies. Conversation with colleagues in public ElHi indicates the same pattern of significant increases in non-educational activity. FWIW -- much of this reporting could and should be eliminated by the imposition of a standard data format, and the transmission of this raw but formatted data to the agency involved, so that they can slice and dice as they desire. Other, very time consuming, activities can and should be eliminated, such as the surveys of graduate income. Not only is it difficult to track down graduates from 5 and 10 years ago, many will not respond, so the data is worthless. Given that everyone earning a wage must file an income tax return, and social security numbers are used for both the return and student ID, the cost effective and accurate method would be to send a list of ssns [in machine readable format, not a paper copy] to the IRS, but noooooo...

Unfortunately, this is the same pattern that I observed in the

60s and 70s while I was employed in manufacturing, where the reporting and accounting demands [and staffing] increased exponentially, followed by collapse and off-shoring in the 1980s and 1990s, largely because of excessive overhead/burden rates.

This confusion is significantly compounded by confusion about what "education" means. It is a noun or a verb, a process or a product? Indeed, it appears to take on different meanings for even the same speaker, from sentence to sentence, leading to an endless series of "problematiques," and confusion.

Many of the "problems" with education are due to its nature as a continuously "moving target." Think of the problems that would ensue in the machining trade if the inch used for tolerances kept changing/shrinking. Processes that were adequate today [CsubPK >

1.33] would be out-of-control tomorrow. Exactly the same thing occurs with the amended and "re-normed" college admissions tests such as the SAT and ACT. These are "normed" against selected high school graduates, generally from private prep schools, are then "adjusted" to fail a preset fraction of these applicants, and then these are used to evaluate the "adequacy" of a general high-school education, not for additional academic work, but for "life!"

Even the word "adequate" is subject to confusion, as does this mean a minimum level of knowledge or does it mean a desired/ideal level of knowledge, and in either case who sets the standards and how are these measured?

One major problem is that we have allowed the "experts in the instructional topics," to set the "educational standards." IMNSHO, these "subject matter experts" should not be allowed to determine what "every child must know." For example, almost all teachers of American history feel it is vital that the student know and "appreciate" the importance of the "Northwest Ordinance." Yet I know of no study showing any relationship, causal or predictive, between knowledge about or appreciation of the "Northwest Ordnance," and social status/income, criminal history, etc. FYI --

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It is good to see that people are interested in education, I suggest:

(1) Define in your own mind what you mean by education. Most likely you will wind up with education(1), education(2), etc. Just be sure which one you are using when discussing "education."

(2) Pay particular attention to what your local schools feel the object and standards are for "education." [What they do is far more important than what they say.] Are their standards a "minimum" or an "ideal," and is the intent to get their students ready to assume their roles as adults or preparation for yet more "education." These need not be contradictory goals, but one must take priority, bearing in mind that college graduates are still a minority of HS graduates.

(3) Determine how much of your local school funding is used for actual "educational" activities and support, how much for mandated but non educational services/activites, how much for "administration," and how much for generation of baffle-gas reports.

(4) "Observation and imitation" remains the primary method of learning, not classroom instruction. To the extent possible, take time to include your children in the operation of your family, for example how much money you spend on food, rent, gas, and other car expenses. It is precisely the [lack of] appreciation of the magnitude of these expenses v income that cause the most problems in young adults. Credit cards are now far more likely to cause problems than "sex."

Unka' George [George McDuffee]

------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

Reply to
F. George McDuffee

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:38:59 -0500, F. George McDuffee wrote: [Snip George's readable comments]

[...]

While looking at a page about Sunnen CNC hones[*] to understand C_pk I noticed some references to air-gaging systems, which I'm not familiar with, and for which a minute with Google didn't help much. Is anyone here an expert re air-gaging systems, whatever they are?

[*]
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-jiw

Reply to
James Waldby

========== Good question.

Air gauging is a technique used to accurately measure the bore diameter of very deep holes like rifle barrels. The principal is that you have a short but very accurate guage pin a few thousandths [or less] under the minimum bore size, at the tip of the probe with a hole in the side. Air is supplied though the tube that is the stem of the guage. The air flow will depend on the space between the probe tip and the bore to be measured. Clean, very well regulated regulated air is supplied through a flow meter, typically one of the bouncing ball type, and the max/min readings are located on the flow guage using very accurate, typically jig ground, min/max setting masters. As long as the ball is between the min/max marks on the flow guage, the bore is within specs. You can also use intermediate setting rings to get even finer measurements if desired. Rotation of the part will indicate any out-of-round conditions at the probe hole location [ball bounces], along the length of the bore.

for more than you wanted to know click on

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on < "air gauging"> for 11k hits google on "air gaging"> 6,100 hits

Unka' George [George McDuffee]

------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

Reply to
F. George McDuffee

"indoctrinating

I've thought many times that the guys saying how lousy the education system is and how it indoctrinates students, puts out idiots, and is falling apart, are products of that exact system. Yet somehow they managed to come out all right and usually brag about how smart they are too. Seems like a contradiction to me, but since it's usually right wing types saying this that makes it understandable.

I'm a product of the California public education system myself and think that I have a pretty good idea of how well it works. Decades ago when I was in high school, in the old days, I think the system was pretty damn good. The teachers seemed to know what they were doing and tried to teach us. Unfortunately, people like me didn't care and didn't try. The result, I think I came in about 450th in a class of about some 5 hundred. Looking back, it is clear that a good education was being offered but I wasn't taking it.

Later on I tried going to college...many times. I failed every time because I didn't want to do the work. The teaching? I think it was pretty good and the teachers seemed pretty dedicated to me to doing their jobs. Eventually, I got an AA degree. Twenty years passed and I went back to college at age 48 to become a paralegal. This time I did the work and it was hard. I actually had to put in a lot of effort to get through it. I kept at it until I completed my bachelor's degree. I got good grades but again, it was hard and I worked a lot of hours. The younger students didn't work hard. They played around, didn't show up to class, didn't work very hard, except for a few who also did the work. The teachers didn't play around either and assigned a lot of work and didn't give good grades to anyone that didn't deserve it, at least the vast majority of the time.

Then I went to graduate school. This was a big step up and was real hard. All the lousy, lazy students were gone and only A level people were there. Every teacher had a PH.D. Every one of them was really smart and really well educated. They made it very difficult to pass their classes. I graduated anyway because I was serious this time and worked at it. So what is the bottom line about our education system? Overall, it's damn good. It's true I didn't go to any ghetto schools, but I went to schools all over California and the thing I found in all of them was that it was really up to the student what you got out of it. If you wanted a good education you were able to get one. From personal experience I know it's that way. If you don't want to try then they system looks lousy. But if your really want an education you can get a good one and it's a real bargain. So when I hear people say the system sucks it just tells me they don't know what they are talking about. Either that or when they had their chance they were too lazy or too stupid to benefit from the great deal they had at their fingertips.

Hawke

Reply to
Hawke

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