B&S Taper collets for Enco semi universal dividing head

You guys may remember, that a few weeks ago, I had a problem with a couple of Hardinge made #7 B&S taper collets for my new dividing head.
Someone here had suggested that the taper in my DH might be a Morse #2, as he had found such a DH on an English site. It turns out, that this was indeed the case, even though the tech at Enco was rather adamant about the fact, that they only carried dividing heads with B&S tapers.
The same person here suggested that I write to Enco, and complain about the poor treatment that tech support person had given me.
Well, I did write to Mitchell Jacobson, the CEO of MSC, since I could not find anyone at the top, and in charge of Enco. I also addressed a copy of that letter to the operations manager of Enco.
This morning I spoke with the operations manager, and this afternoon he sent me an email. Here is a copy of part of that email.
"We heard from MSC QA department this afternoon that the 8" Accupro dividing table that we were discussing as a possible solution today - MSC item# 06105811 (found at top of page 1508 of MSC's 2004/2005 Master Catalog) - also has a #2MT taper...meaning that ALL of dividing heads sold by both Enco and MSC have Morse tapers instead of B&S tapers!
We also got an e-mail back from our supplier - they confirm that they did indeed make a design change to these dividing heads without informing us and without updating their product literature. They also state that they have not made the B&S version for a long time...so apparently you are the first person in quite some time to get the idea of sticking a # 7 B&S collet into the dividing head (and thus discovering the problem)!
At this point, I am sorry to say that neither Enco nor MSC has any dividing heads available to send you that will have a B&S taper of any size. Having said that, I'd like to offer up two alternative solutions to make things right between you and Enco: ...."
They are offering to refund me the money I paid for the Hardinge collets, so I can use that to buy Morse taper collets instead.
And they are offering to take the DH head back for a full refund, plus the money back I paid for the collets. Not an option, because I need a dividing head, and I now do not want to go looking around to see if someone else has one with a B&S taper.
He also wrote "I'm open to alternative solutions if you have any". I think I am going to tell him, that I want a Yuasa DH for my trouble and emotional trauma caused by this whole experience. :) As compensation for the time I spent sorting this out, so to speak.
Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com
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If you determine what all of your future needs will be for your dividing head, you might come to a conclusion about how important the taper bore is, or which one would be more practical for your needs. The availability of arbors or collets (and how many sizes you'll need) would be one consideration. A lot of DH setups are performed with centers/dog/faceplate and a tailstock, other setups utilize a chuck.
If you can't find new Morse collets, I think Phase II has them http://www.phase2plus.com/details.asp?pr=MORSE_TAPER_COLLETS_(ROUND)&cat=Machine_Tool_Accessories&id
When I got a set of MT3 collets direct from Phase II over a year ago, they were about $11 each. Enco sells Phase II products, but they didn't have the MT collets in their catalog at the time. I don't like doing research for companies either, when they have staff that should know what their products are. Sometimes ya gotta wonder if anyone ever gets their fingers dirty, except for the warehouse or packing folks.
WB ...............

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Not only did you 'get the idea of sticking a no. 7 B&S collet in there" but you actually did act on reliance of their literature and *purchased* same!
Rule number one for a company that screws up like this, is to insist that the customer who is on the line is the *only* one who ever saw this problem. In spite of the fact that the switchboard is lit up all over with folks screaming about the same thing.
Sounds like they are either a) willing to buy the B&S ones from you, or just pay you for them. Take that offer, and purchase a set of MT2 ones which are commonly available.
That actually sounded like a pretty nice offer.
Jim
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jim rozen wrote:

Actually, the final result and settlement was much better.
Since not one of their dividing heads in their entire inventory, and that of MSC (Accupro brand) had a B&S taper, but all off them had Morse tapers, they could not give me a replacement dividing head, that my collets would fit into. So I asked them to supply me with a Yuasa brand dividing head. Enco responded, that because this brand is not a stock item, but a special order, and because of the high cost of the Yuasa head, this was not a viable solution.
Instead, Enco sent me a check for the cost of the collets. And they refunded the full amount I paid for the dividing head.
And I get to keep the dividing head I bought from Enco!
I am very happy with this solution. I told the operations manager at Enco, that I would be spending the money with them for a few new tools.
Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com
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Abrasha wrote:

I know that it's not a concern anymore, but did they mention whether or not they carry morse collets that will fit their heads? I want to buy a dividing head, but would like to know what your end solution is for collets and the Enco head.
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Jim Stewart wrote:

Hardinge collets. They told me that they will issue an MRA number for the B&S collets, and they will make the Morse taper collets for me.
Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com
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