Battery question

My grandkids have this ATV. It's plastic, and runs on a 12v 8AH battery that won't charge any more. I haven't priced them, but they're probably
proprietary and spendy. Would a common lawnmower/motorcycle battery from Checker work? They're close to the same size. Or would it have too much amperage and burn up the motor?
Steve
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SteveB wrote:

A "starter" battery would work fine, but not for long. Starter batteries are not meant for deep discharge. They're meant to deliver a lot of current very briefly and then be recharged. Deep discharge is about the worst thing to do to a starter battery.
The ATV needs a deep discharge battery, such as the battery for a trolling (fishing) motor.
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Only if the battery's voltage is too high. If the battery voltage is correct for the motor, it's the other way around, you need to know whether the battery can supply enough current. Most batteries can supply lots of current. The amp hour rating is just the battery capacity. Greater amp hours at the same correct voltage just means it will run the motor longer (and it takes longer to charge).
Whether your replacement battery is suitable might also depend on whether it can withstand shock.
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FWIW, I agree with Bob's reply. Being a deep discharge battery is important.
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SteveB wrote:

This ougha do. 20 bux. http://www.batterywholesale.com/battery-store/proddetail.html?prodID (18
--Winston
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SteveB writes:

Probably a stock item gel type:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA
Look in the digi-key.com catalog to find what you need, then shop on eBay. I've replaced many in toys and UPSs. Shipping cost dominates. Make sure you get current date codes, don't buy from anyone who doesn't report a date code or says it doesn't matter.
At our local county recycling drop-off, you can pick all the VRLAs you want for free from dud UPSs people have left off. Usually the batteries are worn out, but some of them have pretty new batteries connected to dead electronics.
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so that rules out ebay on two counts- 1) crap source batteries 2) scam shipping rates.
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Cydrome Leader wrote:

If you are going with the gel cell battery, they should be available at your nearby burglar alarm company office, most electronics stores, and even radio shak (expensive!)
technomaNge
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technomaNge wrote:

Some are used in emergency lighting, as well. The local Home Depot had a couple sizes in stock, the last time I checked.
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wrote:

It needs to be a Deep Cycle style battery for the usage. Most Sealed Lead Acid "Gel Cell" batteries are, most motorcycle and car batteries are not.
And a wet style trolling motor battery can leak battery acid all over the kids if they turn the toy car over during play, and we obviously don't want that.
Too much amperage or amp-hour capacity is not a problem, most of these cars have a simple two- or three-stage controller that has one or two big series speed regulation resistors, then straight through 12V to the motor.
The best battery is a generic 12V 8AH to 12AH Gel Cell battery that will fit in the battery space under the "hood" - all you have to add is an inline fuse holder to equal the "built-in" fuseholder in the purpose built battery. And be sure to secure it in place with a clamp or strap somewhat like the original.
If you feel like spending a lot of money ($100 - $150) on the battery and doing some plastic body modifications to mount it, there's no reason you can't go WAY bigger with the battery. The Optima Spiracell starved-electrolyte cell (yellow or blue top for deep cycle) will work fine and let the kids run around most of the day on one charge.
WARNING: The Optima batteries are very low internal resistance and can dump a hellacious amount of current into a dead short, several thousand amperes. This is good for some uses, bad for yours. Therefore, you MUST take proper precautions.
Have a robust inline fuse that is rated to interrupt that level of current - cheap ATO and AGC automotive fuses are NOT rated for this, they could arc across. And you MUST protect the battery terminals from any accidental short circuit contact. Bolting the hood closed with tamper-resistant fasteners (Tamper Torx) to keep kiddie fingers out would be a prudent idea. If it stops working, call Daddy.
--<< Bruce >>--
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Interesting batteries. Are these somehow related (other than being rolled up) to those "cyclone" batteries that were made by Gates years ago?
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On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 21:25:30 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader

The Gates Cyclon is the same basic idea - rolled up positive and negative plates, mat separators and insulating separators, and a little squirt of electrolyte. Just like a big electrolytic capacitor.
If you can find them, they make smaller batteries out of the Cyclon cells that can fit in the existing battery wells. But you still have to watch out for that short circuit dump current and use a fuse with a high interrupt rating - but not nearly as nasty as a car-sized Optima.
--<< Bruce >>--
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This whole thing is just a kids toy. The battery is about half the size of a motorcycle battery. There is a squeeze/pull terminal that Ray Charles couldn't get wrong. I have tipped the battery upside down, and although it says lead/acid, nothing came out. I have had it on the charger now for 12+ hours, and it doesn't work except to turn the wheels slowly. So, I guess I'll just go get another battery. One of the first posters posted a link to a very similar looking battery for $20, at Battery Depot, IIRC. Probably could get one locally. Plus, inside the cowling, it says you can put two batteries together to double riding time.
Those who suggested deep cycle RV and golf cart batteries were simply overthinking this. The actual battery is about six inches high, eight inches long, and 2.5 inches thick. We're talking PlayHouse toys here. The ATV would stand on its nose if I put one of those big honkers in there.
Steve
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There are sealed lead acid batteries that don't leak.

My first attempt was under thinking this. They are right and it's not that big of a deal to get one. Being deep cycle/discharge has nothing to do with battery size. They don't have to be big, ordinary household batteries probably fit the description of being a deep discharge/cycle battery. That's what you need. You just don't want a battery made for starting equipment or motor vehicles.
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wrote:

That's the whole idea behind a gelled electrolyte - no leaks, even if you cut it open it mostly stays in place.

Yes you can - but they charge extra for the ones from the toy maker with the built-in fuseholder and the purpose made plug-in leads.
A generic gel-cell battery you'll have to cut off the connecting harness from the old batteries and splice it to your own fuseholder and QC terminals for the battery posts - but you'll also save 30% or more.

They are putting two 12V batteries in parallel to get 12V at double the AH capacity - that works, but only if the two batteries are very closely matched from the factory and always used together. And even then, one battery always has a slightly lower internal resistance and gets discharged first - if it gets driven into reverse charge it can be permanently damaged.
If you want to increase the run time, pick out two 6V gel batteries that will fit in the two wells, and wire them in series. They will live a lot longer than two 12V batteries in parallel.

This is r.c.m - We /always/ overthink things, it's more fun! ;-)
Remember what Tim 'The Tool Man' Taylor says: "What do we need? More Power!!"
--<< Bruce >>--
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Get a pair of 7 or 8 ah AGM batteries commonly used in alarm systems, emergency lighting systems, computer UPS, and other rechargeable devices. Should cost about 25-30 each - possibly as much as 35 depending where you buy them. Put the pigtail from the old battery on and GO!
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On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 23:42:46 -0400, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote:

Note that the batteries made for UPS Systems have special codes added to the standard model numbers, with a higher discharge rate, and a corresponding higher price cause they cost more to make. And they have different terminals (usually bolted lugs instead of QC Tabs) that can pass the higher current levels.
Your standard 7AH batteries have a 20A fuse and will see a 6A - 10A max load for an hour or two - the same size batteries in a UPS might see 40A to 60A load, but only for three to ten minutes.
About the only other place this would be useful is driving an electric starter for a small (under 10 HP) gasoline engine, where the battery size and weight is an issue.
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My Internet Office 500 uninterruptible power supply UPS battery by Tripp-Lite does not have bolted lugs, it has tabs that the connectors slide onto. But I'm wondering how a sturdier connector would be an issue anyway.

Why is being able to source more current a problem? The motor will draw only the current it needs and the fuse will work, whether the battery can source 20 amps or 1000 amps.
The buyer can easily decide simply based on comparing prices.
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wrote:

I have some Hawker 22AH batteries that will gladly dish out 2000 amps into a short circuit that would also make good batteries for the kid's little sidewalk car. (at about $279 each. last I recall). It will very handily crank the 165 inch Chevy Corvair.
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On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:18:50 -0400, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote:

Why? I can go get a Group 51R battery (from a newer Hyundai, IIRC) that drops right in an early Corvair and works fine - and a LOT less than $279, more like $50.
The Group 57 batteries are almost unobtanium now.
--<< Bruce >>--
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