Bio-Fuels Bite the Dust

Sorry, did I seem to restrict my suggestion to just ADM and ethanol? My bad. I meant it to mean "subsidizing biofuels". Oh look. Just like I said and you quoted.

Reply to
Dave Hinz
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The last time you filled your tank did you hand the station attendant euro's or yen?

Reply to
Tony

It's a fact that CO2 traps heat. (That's why Venus's surface temperature is

800F degrees).

It's a fact the Polar ice caps are significantly smaller today then they were 100 years ago.

It's a fact every glacier in the world has retreated, and many glaciers will be gone in the coming years.

It's a fact fossil fuel burning is at a peak in all history, somewhere around 80 million barrels per day, with demand on a upwards curve. That's like 70 Exxon Valdez size supertankers of oil being burned every day, seven days per week, around the clock, for decades. And that's oil only, coal & natural gas are on top of this.

The kid down the street is gonna need a new home due to flooding when the Appalachians become beachfront property.

Reply to
Tony

Your worried about ADM? How about Exxon Mobil laughing all the way to the bank. And OPEC. And a assortment of dictatorial regimes propped up with petrodollars.

Subsidizing? No fuel is subsidized more heavily that oil/gas. From sweetheart deals for drilling leases, to special tax structures (Master Limited Partnerships), to several Carrier task groups to protect the Persian gulf waterways. How many trillions is the US spending on Iraq since 1991? No Americans have died protecting corn fields. Don't forget the environmental damage (EPA, DEC Superfund sites) to clean up oil spills all over the place. How much does this cost?

Reply to
Tony

In America you can grow all the hemp you want by paying the $1/acre tax. Now try finding A bureaurat who will accept that tax payment ;)

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

Reply to
nick hull

More likely Venus's thick atmosphere simply slowed its cooling from initial formation. Hard to get much greenhouse effect when Venus's clouds reflect almost all the light and heat from the Sun.

We were still in the "little ice age" when this country was founded, it should be no surprise things have warmed up. Still not as warm as the medieval warm period.

Has happened before, and the world will panic (again) when the glaciers expand again as they did in the 'little ice age'

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

Reply to
nick hull

Subsidizing biofuels that don't help the environment doesn't make sense. That's my point.

Reply to
ATP*

I see. So you respond to my point with a subset of the technology to refute what I said. Then when I challenge said tactic you reinforce it by repeating it. Interesting tactic you have there. You might want to try logic and coherence and see how that would work for you, because this one, well, not so much.

Now then. Can we start giving money to farmers instead of arabs, please?

Reply to
Dave Hinz

I have to spell it out point by point? You need to refine your broad support for "subsidizing biofuels" so that it is not just a subsidy to corn producers at the expense of the environment and the economy. You made no distinction as to the type of biofuel, therefore, it was your post that was imprecise and promoted bad policy.

Reply to
ATP*

Don't know about Fedex, but last I knew the ones on Moscone Center, and the Alameda county Jail roofs were doing just fine.

jk

Reply to
jk

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There is another point, the apparent mistrust of consumers for "Gasohol", for want of a better word.

Some time in the 1990's I had some dealings with the Philippine National Oil Company who were, at the time, pushing the use of gasoline/alcohol mixes as a solution of the Philippine's high fuel costs. While there I met a gentleman who was the secretary of the "Gasohol Committee" and discussed the program with him.

He stated that even though the Marcos government was cooperating by restricting sale of gasoline on certain days to try and convert consumers to the idea of using gasohol it was not a success and most consumers just wouldn't use it although it was cheaper then gasoline.

The same thing seems to be happening here in Thailand with sale of "gasohol" falling far below expected volumes, to the extent that one of the big agricultural conglomerates has announced that they are stopping the building of a second ethanol plant as the demand was not high enough.

Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

Reply to
brucedpaige

I didn't specify corn ethanol, you did.

Your reading skills are weak. And, your point of view doesn't acknowledge this wonderful thing called "market forces". If the price of corn goes up, people like me who have CRP contracts to not grow things on viable farmland might just decide it's time to go back to producing, er, you know, more corn.

That's the whole point of the land-bank program. You know that of course, right?

Reply to
Dave Hinz

What are the claimed and/or actual reasons for the consumer resistance to gasahol both in the Philippines and in Thailand? There has to be a story here.

Joe Gwinn

Reply to
Joseph Gwinn

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We currently are generating electricity from methane extracted from our landfill. Gerry :-)} London, Canada

Reply to
Gerald Miller

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:25:52 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, Gerald Miller quickly quoth:

Ah, but have you plumbed your cows for methane capture yet?

-- Who is John Galt?

Reply to
Larry Jaques

Even if the corn is FREE it's a bad deal for the environment. Also, even if you go back to producing corn, the added demand still increases the price of corn, assuming the available agricultural land is not unlimited.

Reply to
ATP*

I wonder, has anyone tried Bean-o on cows? Or is it even still around? Gerry :-)} London, Canada

Reply to
Gerald Miller

yeah, and poisoning the groundwater with MTBE spills and leaks (which was replaced with ethanol) was better for the environment?

Reply to
Tony

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 23:59:07 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, Gerald Miller quickly quoth:

Ask yourself one question, Gerry "Who in their right mind cares if a cow farts?"

It's still around. I bought some a couple years ago before learning that your body gets used to legumes and stops farting after a few days of them being in your diet.

-- Who is John Galt?

Reply to
Larry Jaques

That's a different issue than the idea of replacing fossil-based fuels with biofuels. MTBE was a bad idea, but ethanol as an additive to decrease pollution is also controversial, because it increases certain emissions. It's quite possible that no oxygenating additive would be preferable, or some alternative formulation would be better.

The major problem with corn based ethanol is the energy input to make a gallon of ethanol, which is very close to a gallon of fossil fuels. Land use issues, corn prices and pollution from agriculture are all just additional nails in the coffin, as far as I'm concerned. Let's admit that the whole program is just a big give away to agribusiness and get moving on other alternative energy sources, including nuclear.

Reply to
ATP*

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