Changing oil through dipstick tube

My understanding of Honda automatic transmissions are that they are a very different design (closer to a "wet" manual transmission), and that they are typically as reliable as other automatic transmissions that use filters.

The automatic transmission on my old '89 Integra was running like new when the car was sold at 115K miles.

aaah, just for the record, I have a 1951 dodge with fluid drive (chrysler's rejoinder to GM's hydromatic - a way of avoiding the patents) - it has no filter, it uses 10 wt oil as the fluid and lubricant, and it's been going fine for over 50 years. Of course it doesn't have bands and stuff. My point here is that a filter doesn't make something last a long time by itself.

Fumoto oil drain valves. Found at Summitracing.com You'll never do an oil change again without them. If you've got the ground clearance, get the one with a nipple, and you can stick on a chunk of hose & drain directly into an old jug. No more mess. About $15 per valve, but worth every penny.

Oh, you will still need to use ramps for small cars. Trucks & vans tall enough to crawl under are really easy.

I find it criminal that transmission pans don't have drain plugs. Yes, you need to remove the pan to change the fluid. It's an ugly mess. The first time I pull the pan from any new car, I'll put in a drain plug. This first time, I'll use a drill pump to suck most of the tranny fluid out to minimize mess.

-Jeff Deeney-

I tried fitting a Fumoto in my Pantera, but there is not enough clearance around the oil pan to fit one. I found the following valve from Fram, which takes up less space:

And that may indeed find the deepest part of the pan on SOME engines. But what about the engines where the dipstick isn't located over the deepest part of the pan but instead is over one of the "steps" in the pan that is there to clear the subframe, steering linkage, or whatnot? Especially if there are baffles in the pan that prevent the tube from sliding sideways and off the "step" into the deeper part of the pan.

I agree- its a half-assed way to do it and a lot of times its going to be the wrong half of the ass.

It only takes one counter-example to prove that statement false, and I know of many counter-examples.

I've got a couple that are pushing 40 years, and one that is 55. None of them are supported below the entry point into the block.

The newer cable-type dip"sticks" may be different, but a traditional springy dipstick doesn't require support for the few inches it sticks into the pan.

Well, it would take a pretty darn big twerp to call a drain plug "inaccessible."

Back when I went to work in a garage...er, excuse me, "*Service* Station", (circa 1975 or so), when I did an oil change it was standard procedure to completely remove the pan, clean it in the parts washer, and put it back with a new gasket.

And even if you just stopped in for gas, you got your windows washed (front and back), tire pressure checked, and an under-hood check (oil, water, battery, belts, hoses), a *smile*...and a "Thank-You".

Relatives are excluded from this debate!

Fluid Drive was offered in at least two different setups- one was just a fluid coupling after the clutch and before a conventional automatic, which allowed you to take your foot off the clutch at idle and then step on the gas to accelerate. IIRC, most of these versions used engine oil for the fluid coupling, so a) it was filtered and b) it got changed every time you changed the oil.

The other was a true semi-auto and would shift from low to high range when you let off the gas (early versions) or when an appropriate speed was reached (later versions). But neither had bands or multi-plate clutches bathed in fluid which shed wear particles into the lubricant and require filtering.

Honduh's automatic is, I gather, more of an automated manual transmission (rube goldberg device) and so doesn't shed clutch material into the fluid either. I still wouldn't own one.

william_b_noble wrote:

Huh? What part of the world was this. I too was a mechanics helper in those years you mentioned working at a "service station". I had never seen this done or ever heard of it being done for an oil change. I would never pull an oil pan to change the oil, no reason to and too many chances of leaks afterwards especially with the degree of experience/training involved with those that do oil changes; not to mention crossmembers, steering linkages, and all other manor of stuff in the way of even getting to the bolts, let alone getting the pan out. Often it is required to undo an engine mount or two and lift the engine to get an oil pan out, and removing other items like starters. Even in the 70's this was true on many vehicles.

Lane

Yep, I'm with you, Lane, but it makes a nice story. Like when we were kids and had to walk ten miles each way to and from school. Not only was it cold, but it was up hill both directions. Wind was always in your face, too, never at your back. Remember the snow? Must have snowed at least three feet each day. Drifts over the eaves of houses were common, too. Sigh.

Harold

This noise has gone on long enough. It is time for me to put this issue to rest. I feel compelled to do so.

Firstly: One knows, presumably, how much oil is in the engine, because the engine capacity is listed in the Owner's Manual, and one has a DIPSTICK.

For example, my owner's manual calls for 4.5 quarts of oil. This is not -quite- correct, because the oil filter retains 1/2 quart. How do I know this? I've measured it. 4.5 quarts leaves the engine short

1/2 quart on the dipstick after an oil change, after the engine has been started to permeate it.

Nextly: One measure the amount of oil withdrawn from the engine.

When the filter is removed, so is 1/2 quart of engine oil. The remaining can be measured ( as I do ) by pumping it into empty 1 gallon milk jugs.

So let's put all this together now.

Before my oil change I check the engine level and it reads FULL on the dipstick, or down 1/2 quart or whatever.

If it reads down 1/2 quart because it was burned-off, then I can expect a) 1/2 quart depletion by removing the oil filter and b) 1 each filled 1-gallon milk jug.

If I get less than that, I know the *missing* oil is still in the engine somewhere, and the vacuum method missed something because the tube didn't make it to the bottom of the oil sump.

The remainder of this is left as a field exercise for the readership.

Lg

You pulled the engine oil pan?

Was it a $300.00 oil cnange?

Some engines had to be removed to take the oil pan out. Are you sure you don't mean the transmission pan?

Refinish King

You're WRONG!

If you put in 4 quarts, and start the engine, you'll be half quart short. If you put in 4.5 quarts, then start the engine to fill up the filter.

The oil level on the stick will be perfect.

Providing you are reading the manual properly, for the engine that's in your vehivle?

Refinish King

PS

Pulling the oil drain plug still leaves oil in: The oil pump, the lifters, the oil passages, the crank shaft, the heads have wet areas, so does the lifter valley.

Like I said in many posts:

It's not a bad idea, but. I don't do it!

Refinish King

at the risk of continuing the "noise", how would you approach an engine where the dipstick doesn't go into the block (this is the case with my daily driver). To change the oil on this car is something of an ordeal involving removing body panels to get at one of the oil filters and one drain plug, and removing a bit of other stuff to get at the engine drain plug and a second oil filter. It would be nice to just suck through the dipstick, but it wouldn't work as far as I can see.

oh, free "buy it yourself" donut or beer if you guess the car from that description