Clausing 5914 has arrived

I now have possession of the lathe. It came with a 5C collet nose and Royal lever closer, plus something like 140 collets, mostly Hardinge.
Also got the 3-jaw, 4-jaw, and dog-driver chucks, three driving dogs, and the steady rest. No slotted faceplate or follow rest.
Seller also threw in a collection of side-milling cutters that I can use in the Millrite.
Toolpost is funky, a wrench-activated sort-of aloris, but no pistons or wedges. Also got lots of bits and holders, plus some knurlers.
Lots of spooge and dirt. Threads in particular need to be cleaned, to allow free motion. The dog driver plate had some bits of aluminum stuck to the L-00 taper, from tightening the plate down without first cleaning the mating surfaces.
Motor is 3-phase 220/208-volt 2 HP, and appears to be original.
By the way, to remove a chuck, which way does one rotate the big ring that grabs the thread on the L-00 taper? It's hard to turn in either direction, probably from spooge and chips in the threads, and I'm reluctant to press on without knowing the correct direction.
Joe Gwinn
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Rotate the ring clockwise (when looking at the spindle nose) to loosen the chuck.
Mike
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That worked. Thanks,
Joe Gwinn
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    Great!
    Hmm ... is it perhaps the Dickenson style common in the UK with Myford lathes? The toolpost has two vertical male V-ways, which match female ones in the holders. The toolpost wrench a bent shank socket wrench rotates a cam which draws in a T-stud which engages a T-slot in the holders between the female Vees. There are two sets of V-ways and T-studs -- one for turning and one for boring/facing. Each holder has a long knurled thumbnut to raise or lower the holder, and an Allen-head cap screw to lock the thumbnut to the proper height.
    Not quite as convenient as a wedge style Aloris or clone, but pretty close to as rigid and better than the piston style. I've got one on my Emco-Maier Compact-5/CNC (a significantly smaller lathe).

    Spritz them with WD-40 to soften the old lubes so you can undo things and wipe them clean -- then put on good lubes (E.G. Vactra No. 2 waylube) in place -- though be prepared to wipe it off before mounting the chucks or plates.

    Ouch.
    Great!
    This agrees with my experience -- though you could have told by looking at the threads on one of the chucks or plates which was not currently mounted.
    Again -- spritz in WD-40 to loosen up the spooge before removing it. And put a board across the ways to take the weight of the chuck without dinging the ways when it comes loose. It is not as sudden as a threaded chuck, but these are heavy enough to be a surprise the first time or two. :-) Ideally -- take a 2x6 or 2x8 and make matching V-grooves in the bottom so it won't slide off. To make mounting a chuck easier -- secure another to the top surface and sand or otherwise cut an arc in it to match the chuck at the right height. You'll need to make one for each diameter of chuck of course.
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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This sounds like it could be what I have. The body is marked "RAPID I.S.A" in an ellipse, plus "TIPO-M" in a rectangle. Where would one find information on these holders? I guess that RAPID is one maker, probably British.
The mounting of this toolpost onto the lathe compound rest is homebrew and strange and ad-hoc, and seems floppy. This deserves a bit of reengineering.

Been doing that, but been using acetone to get that last bit of spooge off. Actually, a mix of acetone and WD-40 is quite effective.
I don't think the welders ever oiled the lathe. Nor did they use it much. When I pumped Vactra #2 into all the oil fittings, vast amounts of dirty oil flowed out at first, and it became easier to move whatever had thus been oiled. The dirt seems to be accumulated ferrous wear products, not grit.
The ways are flame hardened and look good, so the wear products probably come from the cast iron saddle sliding on the bed ways.

All the chucks need a cleaning, but the dog driver seems to be the only one used.

I thought of that, but never having had the collet nose apart, was afraid to be too strong with it.

I have yet to mount the chucks, but this is nonetheless good advice, especially the wooden purpose-built holding fixture for mounting and dismounting chucks.
Joe Gwinn
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    [ ... ]

    Hmm ... "TIPO-M" suggests Italian or Spanish manufacture ("tipo" being "type"). Not sure about the "RAPID I.S.A.", but you could try a Google search for it.

    Hmm ... the one on my Emco-Maier Compact-5/CNC secures with a center bolt to a steel plate which is secured via four Allen-head cap screws to the cross-slide. (No compound on the CNC version, as angle cuts are done by programing the CNC.)
    The toolpost bolts to either of two different positions, depending on the diameter to be machined, as the CNC cross-slide does not have sufficient range to handle the maximum radius part down to he center in a single pass.
    Examination of the underside suggests that it was intended to clamp down on a tapered stud instead of clamping down to a flat plate -- but I haven't gotten around to making a matching taper for it yet.
    [ ... ]

    The spooge could be splattered ferrous metal melted by flame cutting and scattered over the whole shop. Their not lubing things much has the benefit that it did not grab hold of more of the airborne junk, since it sounds as though they never cleaned it. :-)
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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Nothing came up on Google. Who knows if they are still in business.
"Dickenson style" implies multiple makers. What are likely names? Maybe Myford has a favorite maker?

The one I have appears to be intended to mount on a cylindrical post with a smaller cylindrical screw clamping it down. There is a sliding pin with a rounded nose that is intended to engage location holes at various angles in a plate that is not in evidence, to prevent rotation. There is no taper.
I don't think this toolpost came with the lathe, as it is cobbled to the lathe.

The black stuff was inside, in places airborne iron oxide dust could not go. But it was never cleaned. Actually, I think that the lathe came dirty, because there was a lot of hardened cutting oil and chips in the chip pan, and the welders cut dry - I didn't see anything like a coolant circulation system. If it had had one, I bet it would have been included.
Joe Gwinn
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Joseph Gwinn wrote:

The correct spelling is "Dickson" , pic on the right here http://www.pratt-burnerd.co.uk/specialchucks_7.asp . I have a genuine Dickson and a Toolmex made one and the holder sare interchangeable.
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Bingo! This does look like what I have. Thanks for the pointer.
The Pratt-Burnerd website doesn't work properly with Firefox, but Safari does at least seem to work. But the download function was offline, so I cannot yet get the catalog. Probably won't recover until people return from the New Year's holiday.
Toolmex holder does look the same, and is made by Bison. But the catalog of toolholders was not to be found on their website. Only cutting tools. <http://www.toolmex.co.uk/new/catalog.html
Joe Gwinn
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Joseph Gwinn wrote:

Try http://www.toolmex.com/tools/PDF/BisonRotaryTooling.pdf page 85. I'm using Firefox also but hadn't noted that the page was working rather crap.
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Page 85 does have the toolposts I have. What is missing are the details of how one attachs this to one's lathe. One assumes there are kits or at least drawings.

It isn't necessarily obvious when Firefox isn't doing well. No red-flag warnings come up, but things simply fail to work, silently.
I had the Firefox problem with Pratt-Burnerd's website, not Toolmex's. The problem with Toolmex was organizational, not technical: I cannot say that I would have ever thought of a toolpost as "rotary tooling". Thanks for the pointer.
Joe Gwinn
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Joseph Gwinn wrote:
[snipped]

I've not seen kits or drawings for mounting these, I think one just makes something to suit. When I fitted the Toolmex post to my Kerry 1140 http://www.lathes.co.uk/kerry/page2.html I just made a post that was a close fit in the toolpost bore and added a plate to suit the T-slotted compound slide, the top of the post being tapped 1/2UNF for a cap screw. The cap screw clamped the toolpost with the aid of a thick washer. My Harrison M300 came fitted with a Dickson toolpost, that has a M12 stud straight into the top of the compound slide and there is a locating washer, which appears to be pinned to the compound slide, about 4mm thick which locates in the underside of the toolpost, again a thick washer and nut clamp the toolpost.

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I can see lots of ways to do it, but I'm also lazy. And always looking for ideas -- these things have been worked on for decades.
The other decision is if I should fit this rather beat-up toolpost, or just get an Aloris BXB as DoN suggests. I'll probably run with the as-cobbled toolpost for now while I cogitate.
Joe Gwinn
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    [ ... ]

    [ ... ]

    Understood.
    AFIK, Myford uses genuine Dickenson (or is it Dickensen or some other variant)?. What *I* have is labeled with an EMCO tag, with no clues whether it was made by someone else. I have seen a set of the same size as one of the toolposts sold through the years by Shoptask for their 3-in-1 lathes which a friend has. It does fit on my toolpost -- but the flange on the nut had to be turned thinner -- so I did not bother, since it worked with his. (The cam which pulls in the T-stud has a groove turned in an increased diameter section, with a partial sector milled clear to allow the holder to be lifted off only when the cam is loosened.
    Emco also made a different version where the T-slot in the holders is off center, and a T-headed bolt runs through the block (clearing the center bolt) with a nut on the opposite side to lock the tool holder down. I've never seen these except in the service manual for the Compact-5/CNC.
    I've seen much bigger versions sold on eBay -- but I don't remember whether a maker's name was shown.
    I suspect that the patent for the design is long expired, and anyone who wants to is making them. Dickenson (in whatever spelling) is simply the maker in the UK where Myford are located. :-)
    [ ... ]

    O.K. There was no index detent on this one -- but the taper at the bottom would lock it firmly once clamped down.

    Understood. It is not a common style in the US. I would not bother using it for long -- but instead keep an eye out for an Aloris style wedge in BXA size given the size of your machine. (I use BXA on my 12x24" and am quite happy with it. And you even have a better chance on eBay going for BXA than for AXA, because more of the hobby users are going for the AXA size. :-)
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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It turns out to be "Dickson", according to David Billington of the UK: "The correct spelling is "Dickson", pic on the right here http://www.pratt-burnerd.co.uk/specialchucks_7.asp . I have a genuine Dickson and a Toolmex made one and the holders are interchangeable."

So, Emco is another possible source.

Probably the taper is used in a later version. It would be tough to make the pin-in-hole version completely rigid, so I assume that one also torques the central bolt down tight. Actually, the purpose of the pin is probably to prevent annoying rotation while torquing down. Tapers lock almost immediately, making rotation less of a problem.

I'll keep an eye out for BXA posts and holders. What's a reasonable price?
Joe Gwinn
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Joseph Gwinn wrote:

Both the Dickson and Toolmex toolpost blocks I have are equipped with a pin, approx 8mm diameter slightly in from the flat side of the toolpost. I am not sure of its intended use but it isn't required to prevent the toolpost rotating when the centre clamp is being done up, the friction of the toolpost base on the compound slide does that just fine. The Harrison compound slide is drilled to take the pin and locate the toolpost square to the compound slide which is what I use it for, all clamping being done via the centre post.

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That's the same pin I think. A detent is faster for setting to an angle.
One approach that occurred to me was to mill a squat steel plate that fits snugly into the top of the large T-slot, and is drilled to accept the big threaded stud that clamps toolpost using the T-nut below and the big hex nut above. This plate could also have a few 8mm holes to accept the locator pin.
Joe Gwinn
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I have shopped for genuine Aloris (USA-made) and the unavoidable imported copies of the Aloris design, on eBay mostly. I ended up purchasing a new toolpost kit that came with 5 toolholders, in BXA size. This is the wedge-dovetail clamp design, not the piston-clamp design. The wedge design is considerably more rigid from a usage standpoint. The imported kit I bought was about $140 complete, as I recall. I couldn't justify the $500+ price for the new genuine Aloris setup. There is a high degree of interchangeability between the toolholders, though, and I continue to look for Aloris toolholders in the used market. I see them go for anywhere from $25-75 depending on condition and type, and the level of supply and demand. There are several suppliers on eBay that have the same imported kit(s), from China undoubtedly. I just picked the cheapest price and didn't look back --
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In article

From what I hear, Phase II sells a reasonable Aloris clone. See the recent posting by DoN in this thread.
Joe Gwinn
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">> I have shopped for genuine Aloris (USA-made) and the unavoidable

my experience is that the chinese (and worse, Indian) copies of Aloris are really not up to snuff - for about the same price as new chinese you can get used Aloris - the hardening is better, the operation is smoother, and the fit is better
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