Clausing 5914 has arrived

The correct spelling is "Dickson" , pic on the right here
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. I have a genuine Dickson and a Toolmex made one and the holder sare interchangeable.
Reply to
David Billington
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Bingo! This does look like what I have. Thanks for the pointer.
The Pratt-Burnerd website doesn't work properly with Firefox, but Safari does at least seem to work. But the download function was offline, so I cannot yet get the catalog. Probably won't recover until people return from the New Year's holiday.
Toolmex holder does look the same, and is made by Bison. But the catalog of toolholders was not to be found on their website. Only cutting tools.
Joe Gwinn
Reply to
Joseph Gwinn
Try
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page 85. I'm using Firefox also but hadn't noted that the page was working rather crap.
Reply to
David Billington
Page 85 does have the toolposts I have. What is missing are the details of how one attachs this to one's lathe. One assumes there are kits or at least drawings.
It isn't necessarily obvious when Firefox isn't doing well. No red-flag warnings come up, but things simply fail to work, silently.
I had the Firefox problem with Pratt-Burnerd's website, not Toolmex's. The problem with Toolmex was organizational, not technical: I cannot say that I would have ever thought of a toolpost as "rotary tooling". Thanks for the pointer.
Joe Gwinn
Reply to
Joseph Gwinn
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Understood.
AFIK, Myford uses genuine Dickenson (or is it Dickensen or some other variant)?. What *I* have is labeled with an EMCO tag, with no clues whether it was made by someone else. I have seen a set of the same size as one of the toolposts sold through the years by Shoptask for their 3-in-1 lathes which a friend has. It does fit on my toolpost -- but the flange on the nut had to be turned thinner -- so I did not bother, since it worked with his. (The cam which pulls in the T-stud has a groove turned in an increased diameter section, with a partial sector milled clear to allow the holder to be lifted off only when the cam is loosened.
Emco also made a different version where the T-slot in the holders is off center, and a T-headed bolt runs through the block (clearing the center bolt) with a nut on the opposite side to lock the tool holder down. I've never seen these except in the service manual for the Compact-5/CNC.
I've seen much bigger versions sold on eBay -- but I don't remember whether a maker's name was shown.
I suspect that the patent for the design is long expired, and anyone who wants to is making them. Dickenson (in whatever spelling) is simply the maker in the UK where Myford are located. :-)
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O.K. There was no index detent on this one -- but the taper at the bottom would lock it firmly once clamped down.
Understood. It is not a common style in the US. I would not bother using it for long -- but instead keep an eye out for an Aloris style wedge in BXA size given the size of your machine. (I use BXA on my 12x24" and am quite happy with it. And you even have a better chance on eBay going for BXA than for AXA, because more of the hobby users are going for the AXA size. :-)
Enjoy, DoN.
Reply to
DoN. Nichols
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If you have the collet adaptor in the spindle, and the locking ring around the spindle is not rattling loose, then it must be drawn up on a nose protector. To eject the adaptor:
1) Remove any collet from the adaptor.
2) Start turning the ring to unscrew it from the protector. It will start a bit tight (especially with your spooge), then get loose, then as it move far enough to touch the flange of the adaptor, will get tight again until you move it far enough so the collet adaptor pops loose. (Keep a hand ready to catch it, it may jump quite a ways, given how long it probably has been in place.)
Of course. I had to extend mine because I *changed* the spindle from the 2-1/4x8 nose to the L-00 nose.
Perhaps from me. (Perhaps through a roundabout path :-) If it were not so late, I would dig it up and we could compare the serial number on the front.
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The lever sticks out of a cylinder which is mounted parallel to the ways on the center of the front of the apron. The 'Z' is rather square in shape -- but there is no other letter closer to it. The center runs parallel to the axis of the cylinder, and the two crossbars go up or down around the cylinder to allow the lever to rotate something inside the cylinder.
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Looking at the photo which someone posted, the paddle lever has been replaced with a black knob on the front. It either rotates to select the three positions, or it pulls out and pushes in with detents. Look for numbers on the front as a clue as to whether it rotates or pulls.
That also shows the lever which I mentioned above in the center of the apron. look for a black plastic ball knob closer to the headstock than the one for the half-nuts.
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Keep the switch -- but wire it to the control pins of the VFD instead of the motor windings. There are enough contacts in the switch so you can easily find a SPDTCO (Single-Pole Double-Throw, Center-Off) section to run to the VFD's control pins. It is likely to be combined with a second switch throwing the other way for the other side of a winding which is normally reversed by the switching. Just ignore this other side. :-)
Of course -- you will have to dig through the manual of your VFD to find the parameter which needs to be set to get it to pay attention to the control contacts instead of the front panel buttons.
O.K. So you *want* to wire the switch to control the VFD. Any other arrangement is more awkward and develops the wrong muscle memory for using other lathes.
At a guess -- the one in the photo with the red knob is what connects to the switch -- and the vertical moving lever to the left is the one which reversed the direction of the leadscrew for cutting left-hand threads or turning with power feed from outside to inside when facing. (The default with right-to-left motion of the carriage is cutting from the center out.) Never throw this switch with the spindle turning.
Enjoy, DoN.
Reply to
DoN. Nichols
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I've not seen kits or drawings for mounting these, I think one just makes something to suit. When I fitted the Toolmex post to my Kerry 1140
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I just made a post that was a close fit in the toolpost bore and added a plate to suit the T-slotted compound slide, the top of the post being tapped 1/2UNF for a cap screw. The cap screw clamped the toolpost with the aid of a thick washer. My Harrison M300 came fitted with a Dickson toolpost, that has a M12 stud straight into the top of the compound slide and there is a locating washer, which appears to be pinned to the compound slide, about 4mm thick which locates in the underside of the toolpost, again a thick washer and nut clamp the toolpost.
Reply to
David Billington
The lathe came with the tool box attached, and it is still there, but cleaner. It hold the manual, boring bars, cutting tools, woodruff keys, etc. They drilled into the catch pan and bolted on (4) "L" brackets. Those brackets are also bolted to the tool box. Two steel shipping band loops also that wrap around the bottom of the tool box to hold it together. There is enough space under the tool box to slide things under it, like 5 gal buckets of round stock or wooden cradles holding 12" chucks.
Reply to
Clark Magnuson
I can see lots of ways to do it, but I'm also lazy. And always looking for ideas -- these things have been worked on for decades.
The other decision is if I should fit this rather beat-up toolpost, or just get an Aloris BXB as DoN suggests. I'll probably run with the as-cobbled toolpost for now while I cogitate.
Joe Gwinn
Reply to
Joseph Gwinn
It turns out to be "Dickson", according to David Billington of the UK: "The correct spelling is "Dickson", pic on the right here
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. I have a genuine Dickson and a Toolmex made one and the holders are interchangeable."
So, Emco is another possible source.
Probably the taper is used in a later version. It would be tough to make the pin-in-hole version completely rigid, so I assume that one also torques the central bolt down tight. Actually, the purpose of the pin is probably to prevent annoying rotation while torquing down. Tapers lock almost immediately, making rotation less of a problem.
I'll keep an eye out for BXA posts and holders. What's a reasonable price?
Joe Gwinn
Reply to
Joseph Gwinn
Both the Dickson and Toolmex toolpost blocks I have are equipped with a pin, approx 8mm diameter slightly in from the flat side of the toolpost. I am not sure of its intended use but it isn't required to prevent the toolpost rotating when the centre clamp is being done up, the friction of the toolpost base on the compound slide does that just fine. The Harrison compound slide is drilled to take the pin and locate the toolpost square to the compound slide which is what I use it for, all clamping being done via the centre post.
Reply to
David Billington
That's the same pin I think. A detent is faster for setting to an angle.
One approach that occurred to me was to mill a squat steel plate that fits snugly into the top of the large T-slot, and is drilled to accept the big threaded stud that clamps toolpost using the T-nut below and the big hex nut above. This plate could also have a few 8mm holes to accept the locator pin.
Joe Gwinn
Reply to
Joseph Gwinn
I have shopped for genuine Aloris (USA-made) and the unavoidable imported copies of the Aloris design, on eBay mostly. I ended up purchasing a new toolpost kit that came with 5 toolholders, in BXA size. This is the wedge-dovetail clamp design, not the piston-clamp design. The wedge design is considerably more rigid from a usage standpoint. The imported kit I bought was about $140 complete, as I recall. I couldn't justify the $500+ price for the new genuine Aloris setup. There is a high degree of interchangeability between the toolholders, though, and I continue to look for Aloris toolholders in the used market. I see them go for anywhere from $25-75 depending on condition and type, and the level of supply and demand. There are several suppliers on eBay that have the same imported kit(s), from China undoubtedly. I just picked the cheapest price and didn't look back --
Reply to
matt
As I saw a few articles past the one to which I replied. :-)
And the current problem is that the site currently has their catalogs down for updating (presumably for the new year), and they want me to register to be notified of the update. I tend not to register at sites unless I *really* need the information. :-)
The interesting thing about the illustration (which I had to turn on Flash to view -- I hate things like that, too) is that it shows a version with *three* tool stations, not just two at 90 degree intervals like mine.
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Note that is *Emco* -- not *Enco*. Emco is the Austrian maker of lathes and milling machines which made my little 5" CNC lathe. They used to make a matching manual lathe, but no longer do so.
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The pin is almost certainly not intended to lock it in position, but just to be an indicator to tell you when you have rotated it sufficiently to cut the bevel which you want.
I tend to keep mine oriented so one side is parallel to the workpiece axis and the other parallel to the chuck face. If I want a bevel, I switch toolholders to one with an insert at the desired angle. This assures that it is properly set up to hold threading insert tools in the right position -- unless I've had to change the angle of the compound -- such as for switching between standard threading or Acme threading (or potentially Whitworth threading, if I ever do that), or switching from right-hand threading to left-hand threading or back. In those cases, I need to re-orient the BXA holder on my compound on the 12x24" Clausing. For the Compact-5/CNC with the Dickson style toolpost, there is never any need to change the angle of the toolpost, as all angled cuts are handled by the CNC itself -- including threading infeed.
Note that when you get a new post -- even from Aloris -- unless you have paid extra for the mounting plate to be specifically machined for your lathe (in which case you will need to feed them information about the lathe's T-slot), you will receive a blank mounting plate, which you will need to mill to the proper dimensions for *your* T-slot. Usually, this simply requires changing something like this:
/ / / / +----------------------------------------+ | | | | / | |/ +----------------------------------------+
to something like this:
/ / / / / / / / / / / / / +------------------+ / / / / | |/ / / +----------+ +----------+ / | |/ +----------------------------------------+
So it will slide into the T-slot, leaving the height of the center just a little below the top of the compound when it is pulled up as tight as it can be. There is a pre-tapped hole in the center of the plate which accepts the mounting rod on the toolpost.
There *is* no reasonable price in my opinion (as a retired hobbyist on a fixed income) -- especially for a genuine Aloris. As a result, I have a set of Phase-II wedge style which I got when they were on sale (Series 200, which is the same size as the Aloris BXA series). I've added to that extra holders which are Phase-II (always purchase new American-made setscrews for holding the tool shanks, as the sockets in the supplied ones tend to split out when you crank down on them). I've also obtained Genuine Aloris holders from eBay and other used sources, and purchased two specifically new -- because I could never find them in an eBay auction which closed any lower than 10% under the new price in MSC's catalog. :-) Those two are the BXA-16N (which mounts two triangular carbide inserts -- one for turning and one for facing -- on opposite ends of the holder), and an extended reach one (whose number I forget, but you can find them in the MSC catalog) which is particularly nice when threading, as it allows me to reach in with a threading tool with proper support without hitting the live center with the toolpost.
Note that AXA size holds up to 1/2" shank tools, while the BXA holds up to 5/8" shank tools -- and that extra 1/8" does make a difference in rigidity.
I've also picked up some interesting Aloris only tools, including a very nice knurling tool in which the knurls are held in two arms which move on a vertical dovetail, with a leadscrew coupling them with a left-hand thread for one and a right-hand thread for the other, so they maintain the centering on the axis (once initially set), while you adjust the spacing for the size of the workpiece being knurled. The knurls apply to the top and bottom instead of having to be pressed in with the cross-slide, so the load forces on the machine are much less than with the common "bump" style knurlers -- which are often supplied as part of an Aloris or Aloris-style kit. Those are mostly useful for facing, using the half-toolholder in the other end. :-)
Enjoy, DoN.
Reply to
DoN. Nichols
In article , matt wrote:
From what I hear, Phase II sells a reasonable Aloris clone. See the recent posting by DoN in this thread.
Joe Gwinn
Reply to
Joseph Gwinn
I have the 3-station version.
I was reading it as Enco. Oh well.
Is the above plate what becomes the big T-nut that goes in the big T-slot on the top of the compound rest? If so, it came with one of these. It looks shopmade, by someone with a vertical mill. The T-nut screws onto a piece of 5/8-18 UNF threaded rod that goes through the toolpost body, a spacer, and a hex nut. The big problem with the shopmade T-nut is that the 5/8-18 thread is not quite perpendicular to the faces of the T-Nut, and so the nut wobbles visibly on the rod. The rod threads are damaged, and the rod may also be slightly bent. So they had the mill, but perhaps not quite the skill.
What appears to be missing is the shallow "T-nut" plate that goes between the top of the compound rest and the bottom of the toolpost body, and has a series of 8mm holes to accept the index pin. I assume that this plate also serves to space the toolpost up to the correct height with respect to the spindle axis.
Yes. Rigidity varies as the cube of the critical dimension (diameter in this case), so (0.625/0.500)^3= 1.95, call it twice as rigid.
I think I need an Aloris catalog, to know the options and their prices.
Joe Gwinn
Reply to
Joseph Gwinn
I'll try this.
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I found it.
I have the black knob, with three positions marked A, B, and C.
It will certainly have enough contacts.
I would mention that one must use shielded wire from VFD to this switch. Likewise, to any speed-control pot.
Not a problem. Already figured out how to do this for the Mill, when I built a control pendant.
Yes. My only worry is if abrupt reversal of direction through off will cause a problem. I think it's OK to do this, because it's only a command the the VFD, which can implement the command gracefully, without sparks. But I'll be reading the VFD manual.
All correct.
I've figured out all the controls on the headstock. The key was the metal chart telling what combination of controls gives what thread pitch.
Joe Gwinn
Reply to
Joseph Gwinn
That is what I was afraid of. It is a pity that the two names are so similar.
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That is correct. It comes as a blank with a new toolpost (at least so with the new Phase-II toolpost, which is the only post which I have had new.)
Hmm ... the Phase-II has a metric thread which is quite similar to your 5/8-18 -- probably a 16mm thread. And the plate comes pre-tapped in the center of the plate -- but you do have to mill down the plate to make it into a 'T'.
Did you see one in the Dickson catalog? (I got there too late to download it, so I don't know what it has. Probably there is a new one up by now. :-)
But my guess that the pin served for an index was assuming that it was spring loaded and did not project very far. Looking at the images from the Toolmex catalog, I see that there is a pin which goes all the way through the body of the toolpost -- which suggests that it is expecting a hole to be drilled to accept it for setting it properly, but that won't work on a compound like what we have on the Clausings, because those can be set to any angle. You might drill a hole to match the pin at the single most common setting (on my Clausing and Phase-II toolpost, that would be at the 29-1/2 degrees for right-hand threading.
However -- my Emco clone of a Dickson does *not* have such a pin, and there is where such a pin would be most useful, since the toolpost mounts directly to a steel plate on the cross slide, and it can't be set to other angles.
As for the height -- that is handled by the nuts on the screws on the tool holders -- so each is set to the proper height for its own tool. I somehow doubt that you would need to block up the ToolMex or Dickson on the Clausing compound.
But -- perhaps you should get some stock of the proper thickness and size and make your own T-nut with the threading being done in the lathe -- mark the center by scribing a pair of diagonal lines between opposite corners. Hold it in the 4-jaw chuck and adjust so that intersection point is truly on center. Then center drill for a start, drill through tap drill size, and using the live center in the center hole in the back end of the tap, drive the tap with a wrench as you use the live center to push it. I would use a gun tap if available, to avoid having to keep backing up the center and the tap to break chips.
Once the hole is on center -- and truly perpendicular to the plate -- then mill the sides to make it into the right size T-nut. I've done this to make a spare T-nut with the right post threads to allow mounting a toolpost grinder on the compound. And *that* I also needed to make a spacer cylinder to start it off at proper center height to save time during subsequent setups. (I haven't actually *used* the toolpost grinder yet -- but it is now ready for use. :-)
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Well ... since the shanks are square, there is no diameter here, but that is close enough. :-) Probably a little more strength for the corners which would be missing in a round shank -- but pretty much the same for both sizes of square shank so the ratio is probably the same.
That will tell you the options -- but I don't think that you will find prices. For that, I use my MSC catalog as the reference. (It also has a pretty good listing for all of the options available.)
Enjoy, DoN.
Reply to
DoN. Nichols
It should work -- and then give you a chance to clean the threads of both the ring and the nose protector.
I always store the collet adaptor in the protector so I will remember to put it on before installing the collet adaptor. :-)
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Good. The chart lists the paddle lever positions as left, center, and right. Less space on yours.
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Agreed. And you can make a housing for the pot to mount just below the switch, perhaps?
Good enough.
Remember -- the VFD has a programmable acceleration and deceleration. Those values are used when the switch goes from forward to reverse as well. (Which can make such switching a bit safer with a threaded nose, as you are less likely to unscrew the chuck. :-) But with your L-00 nose, there is no problem anyway.
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Good.
Enjoy, DoN.
Reply to
DoN. Nichols
">> I have shopped for genuine Aloris (USA-made) and the unavoidable
my experience is that the chinese (and worse, Indian) copies of Aloris are really not up to snuff - for about the same price as new chinese you can get used Aloris - the hardening is better, the operation is smoother, and the fit is better
Reply to
William Noble

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